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> enables the separation of state from wealth The largest beneficiaries of a currency that cannot be regulated by governments are the people those regulations

by pdkl95 9y ago

> enables the separation of state from wealth The largest beneficiaries of a currency that cannot be regulated by governments are the people those regulations currently affected by those regulations.. The average citizen in Venezuela or India generally doesn't have enough money to have to worry about financial regulations. Even if they wanted to take advantage of a blockchain currency, ss justinfrankel suggested, is will be hard for the average person in (e.g.) Venezuela to participate. If refugees had enough cash to make blockchain storage worthwhile, they wouldn't be refugees. Refugees have immediate security and survivability problems, not financial problems. On the other hand, a global currency that cannot be regulated by any government is perfect for moving large amounts of capital to avoid taxes and the limiters, safeguards, and other regulations that try to keep modern markets from catastrophic failure. I cannot think of a more efficient way to destroy modern democracies than taking away one of the only tools governments have to affect the other place power has been concentrating: large businesses. Incidentally, unifying money across countries that have independent economies and monetary policies creates an imbalance that can ruin the participating economies. We've already seen this happen in the eurozone[1][2]. > take control back from their oppressive leaders That fight is political, not financial. You're talking about a Hollywood plot, not the actual daily reality[3] of people living through that kind of conflict. > The world is already moving to digital cash It's very important to have traditional physical cash, because it's the only way to engage in transactions that cannot be controlled or traced[4]. Moving to digital currencies is handing power power to yet more middlemen trying to extract profit and accumulate power. > is whether we want this digital cash to be [...] traceable by the government, Blockchains are a pubic ledger, and will always be traceable by definition. > This is an example of a problem a centralized database cannot solve. A decentralized database cannot solve it either, because it's a political and social problem, not a database or financial problem. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6vV8_uQmxs#t=778 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6vV8_uQmxs#t=778 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP6YSCpm8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP6YSCpm8g [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvAdRntWH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvAdRntWH8 [4] serial numbers are a problem given the power of modern technology. Actually being untraceable requires careful, regular mixing with a different parties.

quantdev 9y ago
First, I never said 'financial regulations.' Of course it's hard for the average person to buy cryptocurrencies, but it will become easier, and that doesn't mean there isn't a small subset of people that are currently going through the difficulty to acquire coins in dire situations, as the article I posted below shows. And it's absurd to suggest that current or past refugees are refugees because they're too poor to have savings. And whatever you think about them, it's easy to imagine future refugees could have savings, under the mattress or in a bank, that would be more transferable via cryptocurrencies which just requires memorizing a pre-private-key passphrase. Secondly, the Euro/Eurozone is not a great comparison, because it is the antithesis of decentralization, predictability, and majority control. No Central Bank controls the interest rate of Bitcoin. Next, currency is a means by which rules seek to control citizens, even in poorer countries. How can you dispute this? Whatever you think about the importance of physical cash, governments, like India, are already moving to limit its use, as I said, and some may go completely cashless. Yes, Bitcoin is a public ledger of transactions, but the owner of an account is unknown from the ledger (i.e. public keys are not inherently tied to identity). When buying bitcoin peer-to-peer, which is what people in Venezuela are doing, there is no way to connect identity to a public key. Other cryptocurrencies (e.g., Monero) have made transactions themselves private via ring signatures (effectively, a set of private keys form a mathematical ring in such a way that a signature cannot from one of them cannot be distinguished) or other techniques. There's an enormous amount of innovation in applied cryptography because of cryptocurrencies and you should make an effort to google something before you claim that it cannot be solved via blockchains. Finally, Bitcoin is more than just a technology in the same way the internet is more than just a network. It is a social and economic system, so it does solve more than just 'financial' problems. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela-bitcoin-economy-digital-currency-bolivars https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela...
- quantdev 9y ago
  From that article, "Some use bitcoins to buy Amazon gift cards, then order goods and food on the online store in the US and other countries, which can then be delivered by courier to Venezuela – where supermarket shelves are frequently empty." ... "Farias says that many Venezuelan tech workers who freelance for companies elsewhere prefer to be paid in bitcoin. “With Cryptobuyer, we convert bitcoins into bolivars and help Venezuelans pay for daily life necessities, such as mobile phones recharges, television, water and electricity bills as well as banks transfers in bolivars,” he said." ... "“Treating my mother’s cancer would have been very difficult without using bitcoins because my business is going bankrupt and I have a lot of debts, so bitcoins enabled me to stay afloat while our currency is collapsing,” said Eli."

by pdkl95 9y ago

quantdev 9y ago

First, I never said 'financial regulations.' Of course it's hard for the average person to buy cryptocurrencies, but it will become easier, and that doesn't mean there isn't a small subset of people that are currently going through the difficulty to acquire coins in dire situations, as the article I posted below shows. And it's absurd to suggest that current or past refugees are refugees because they're too poor to have savings. And whatever you think about them, it's easy to imagine future refugees could have savings, under the mattress or in a bank, that would be more transferable via cryptocurrencies which just requires memorizing a pre-private-key passphrase. Secondly, the Euro/Eurozone is not a great comparison, because it is the antithesis of decentralization, predictability, and majority control. No Central Bank controls the interest rate of Bitcoin. Next, currency is a means by which rules seek to control citizens, even in poorer countries. How can you dispute this? Whatever you think about the importance of physical cash, governments, like India, are already moving to limit its use, as I said, and some may go completely cashless. Yes, Bitcoin is a public ledger of transactions, but the owner of an account is unknown from the ledger (i.e. public keys are not inherently tied to identity). When buying bitcoin peer-to-peer, which is what people in Venezuela are doing, there is no way to connect identity to a public key. Other cryptocurrencies (e.g., Monero) have made transactions themselves private via ring signatures (effectively, a set of private keys form a mathematical ring in such a way that a signature cannot from one of them cannot be distinguished) or other techniques. There's an enormous amount of innovation in applied cryptography because of cryptocurrencies and you should make an effort to google something before you claim that it cannot be solved via blockchains. Finally, Bitcoin is more than just a technology in the same way the internet is more than just a network. It is a social and economic system, so it does solve more than just 'financial' problems. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela-bitcoin-economy-digital-currency-bolivars https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela...

quantdev 9y ago
From that article, "Some use bitcoins to buy Amazon gift cards, then order goods and food on the online store in the US and other countries, which can then be delivered by courier to Venezuela – where supermarket shelves are frequently empty." ... "Farias says that many Venezuelan tech workers who freelance for companies elsewhere prefer to be paid in bitcoin. “With Cryptobuyer, we convert bitcoins into bolivars and help Venezuelans pay for daily life necessities, such as mobile phones recharges, television, water and electricity bills as well as banks transfers in bolivars,” he said." ... "“Treating my mother’s cancer would have been very difficult without using bitcoins because my business is going bankrupt and I have a lot of debts, so bitcoins enabled me to stay afloat while our currency is collapsing,” said Eli."