8 ms·
Show HN: Add a play button next to IPA on Wikipedia
- sborra 9y agoHa! I Tried it with a couple names from my own language and it clearly is using an english TTS sound library. The pronounciation is better than you would get from a computer reading the name like an english word, but it's funny that even a language-neutral script such as IPA gets read with an english accent.
- restalis 9y agoAccents can be (and many times are) specified in IPA scripts, so if the speaker carries an accent that isn't in the content he/she is reading or ignores any of the explicitly specified accents, then the pronunciation is wrong.
- katamaritaco 9y agoFWIW as well, linguists use different styles of IPA too, depending on the language families they most often work with. Because of how it is used, IPA isn't really the 'one true standard' many would think it is.
- restalis 9y agoI am working with IPA annotated contents and I have linguists in my team. I understand your point (or at least I think I do), but I don't entirely concur. IPA tries to very accurate and thus covers all languages (even the click consonants used by some endangered African tribes). When you have this kind of precision employed in the context of a given natural language, you get the problem of having multiple phonetic transcriptions for the same word or syllable, all valid because from the prospective of a speaker of that language all sound the same. Yet, only one option is the closest to the pronunciation formally supported by a given authority. All you can do is to pick that one when you have to provide, and to just tolerate all the rest when you have to accept. I can hardly imagine something better than what IPA is already offering without loosing the neutral nature, so I'm yet to find valid critiques at IPA's address.
- jdmichal 9y agoThat's the difference between a phonemic and phonetic transcription [0]. The former is bracketed with slashes (//), and the latter with square brackets ([]). To use Wikipedia's example: Phonemic transcription of English "pot" is /pɔt/, and "spot" is /spɔt/. However, a phonetic transcription is closer to [pʰɔt̚] and [spɔt̚]. Note the addition of aspiration on the initial /p/ in "pot", and marking the /t/ as unreleased in both. But you don't need to differentiate stop aspiration in English, because they are conditioned allophones. And all final stops in English are unreleased, so you don't need to mark those phonemically either. Basically, your first sentence is entirely correct, but your second sentence is a bit inappropriate. It serves it's purpose of a standard, but you must keep in mind that most transcriptions are not phonetic but phonemic. And a phonemic reading is not meant to be independent of the language -- there are plenty of languages for which [p] and [pʰ] are not allophones and must be distinguished in even a phonemic reading. You should be familiar with the phonemic conventions of a language in order to actually render a phonetic reading. And even then, a phonetic reading will be dependent on things that boil down to individual speaker differences. That is, there is not any standardized, singular mapping of a phonemic transcription to a phonetic one, in either direction. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoneme
- amyjess 9y agoSomething interesting I noticed here: > Phonemic transcription of English "pot" is /pɔt/, and "spot" is /spɔt/. Your use if this particular IPA indicates that you speak a dialect that has undergone the cot-caught merger, which probably means your accent is from Scotland, the western half of the US, or the Boston area. If you didn't, then you'd transcribe those words as /pɑt/ and /spɑt/ if you spoke a dialect with the father-bother merger (most American accents) or /pɒt/ and /spɒt/ if you spoke a dialect without it (many English accents, including RP). I'm leaning towards you being Scottish, since Scottish English tends to merge them to [ɔ], while American dialects with the merger tend to merge them to [ɑ]. This goes to show that IPA transcriptions are heavily dependent on dialect.
- jdmichal 9y agoI did transcribe it wrong; it's phonetically [ɒ] for me -- cot-caught is in effect. Though this does give opportunity to point out that even phonemic transcriptions can have dialectal differences. There is no one phonemic transcription for English, as the different vowel mergers mean that minimal pairs differ between groups. This kind of variation tends not to happen as much with consonants as vowels, which make them much harder to transcribe even phonemically. But, for example, here's a list of mergers for non-rhotic dialects: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English#Mergers_characteristic_of_non-rhotic_accents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English#Mergers_c...
- ddrum001 9y agoThis is a great feature that has been missing for so long. Can't help but feel that IPA will go the way of cursive once tools like this propagate.
- Xophmeister 9y ago> Can't help but feel that IPA will go the way of cursive once tools like this propagate. IPA is necessary in phonetic and phonological research. You need a way to transcribe and abstract sounds consistently; you can't just submit a recording, along with your paper, to a journal.
- ddrum001 9y agoFair, perhaps the cursive analogy is too strong, though I'm sure that cursive still has a role in research of historical documents. IPA still has an important role in specialized situations, but I don't quite think it's something that should be known for the general public (e.g. the average wikipedia reader).
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- lambdadmitry 9y agoAdding to what Xophmeister said, IPA isn't just a notation, it's also a tool of thought. First, to efficiently quantize the stream of sound you need mental "buckets" to put the sounds to, and IPA provides your those buckets. Second, it may seem as if we hear "objectively", but in fact what you hear is very much affected by your language upbringing; for example, a ton of Americans can't really differentiate "pin" and "pen" even if the words are pronounced as in Standard American — they don't have a concept of the sound needed. IPA gives you those concepts.
- schoen 9y agoThat's a terrific way of putting it! Maybe we can say that IPA reminds of the challenges that are still out there for us in terms of distinctions that we overlook and sounds that we can't produce. For example, I haven't learned to distinguish /pʰ/ and /p/ or /bʰ/ and /b/, as Hindi does, but thanks to IPA, I know that that issue exists and maybe I can learn it some day. Also, I haven't learned to say the consonant at the beginning of a Chinese friend's name (I think it's [ʈ͡ʂʰ]), and IPA helps remind me that [ts] and [tʃ] are just approximations to it.
- lauretas 9y agoIs this add-on also available for Firefox?
- gattilorenz 9y ago+1 The idea is great but some more love for ffox users would be nice :)
- lauretas 9y agoI think the idea behind the new "WebExtensions" is precisely "write once - run everywhere". But I don't know if this add-on is one of them.
- tenryuu 9y agoImported it as a temporary add-on and it worked without any configuration. I'm not going to reupload this work to the AMO for it to be signed for distribution though. Limitation sucks also
- josephfrazier 9y agoYou can use Chrome Store Foxified [1] to install the extension in Firefox. I just tried it, but I'm getting a `TypeError: NetworkError when attempting to fetch resource.` [1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chrome-store-foxified/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chrome-store-...
- lauretas 9y agoHow does this work? Where does the audio come from? Does it use some database of recorded IPA sounds, or does it convert from text to speech on the fly?
- sborra 9y agoFrom what I can tell, it's bending an english TTS engine to make it pronounce IPA sounds
- josephfrazier 9y agoJudging from the source (viewable with Chrome extension source viewer [1]), it's POSTing the IPA text to https://www.ipaaudio.click/audio https://www.ipaaudio.click/audio as the `ipa` key of a JSON object, the server does the heavy lifting and sends back an audio buffer, which the extension sends to a WebAudio context. It'd be neat to know what exactly the server is doing, though. [1]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-extension-source-v/jifpbeccnghkjeaalbbjmodiffmgedin https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chrome-extension-s...
- rusbus 9y agoOP here! I'm using Amazon's polly API which lets you convert IPA directly to audio
- captainmuon 9y agoNice idea! I would also like a transliteration of IPA into pseudo-english (like francais = frahn-say). Most people don't know IPA well enough, and sometimes I don't want to or can't listen to audio. Also I find sometimes, having it written out helps with comprehension. (While we are at it, can people please start "transliterating" names from languages that use the latin alphabet in very different ways, like "Saoirse (seersha)"? And liberally using hyphens to break up longer foreign words? I know everybody is proud and feels well educated when they can pronounce foreign names, but I think there is no shame in using pronunciation aids.)
- simdiab 9y agoThe problem with transliterating names is that there often isn't only one way of pronouncing them. For example, every Saoirse I know pronounces it "sur-sha".
- pwdisswordfish 9y agoOh yes, I'm looking forward to descriptions of pronunciations like 'rhymes with tomato'. English, with its myriad of accents, is an awful language to transcribe anything into. Moreover, having these pseudo-English transcriptions may leave people with a false impression they know how to pronounce something, while in fact using these transcriptions with naïve English phonology still leaves you incomprehensible (or at best very grating) to native speakers. Something something 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' something something Dunning–Kruger something something. Better just learn IPA yourself. Seriously.
- rmc 9y agoI (an Irish person) wouldn't pronounce Saoirse as "seersha", more like "sayr-sha". And in Ireland the pronouncation of the name is pretty well understood. Would you phonetically spell out American names like Barack, or Hillary? Or just foreign ones?
- sib 9y agoThat's an interesting example, given that there are plenty of people who pronounce our former President's name to rhyme with "rack"...
- j_s 9y agoIPA (international phonetic alphabet)
- phillc73 9y agoThank you. My immediate trained response was India Pale Ale.
- wamatt 9y agoKudos on a useful concept. Some feedback: Alternate pronunciations seems to go a bit wonky. For example it pronounces Ribosome [1] (/ˈraɪbəˌsoʊm, -boʊ-/) as ri-bo-some-bo :). Overall quite a nifty tool as many wikipedia pages do not have native pronunciation recordings. Could also see it helping casual learners of IPA. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribosome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribosome
- rusbus 9y agoOP here. Nice find -- I'll add handling for alternative pronunciations soon :-)
- lambdadmitry 9y agoYou confused me quite a lot! Why did you "transliterate" /soʊm/ as "some"? Is there a dialect of English where "some" is pronounced as /soʊm/ and not as /sʌm/ or /səm/?
- bmn__ 9y agomore IPA speech synthesis https://eu-west-1.console.aws.amazon.com/polly/home/SynthesizeSpeech https://eu-west-1.console.aws.amazon.com/polly/home/Synthesi... http://speak-ipa.bearbin.net/ http://speak-ipa.bearbin.net/ http://developer.ivona.com/en/ttsresources/phonesets/phoneset-en_us.html http://developer.ivona.com/en/ttsresources/phonesets/phonese... Also indirectly: http://espeak.sf.net/ http://espeak.sf.net/
- Null-Set 9y agoThis would make a good addition to mediawiki itself. Have you considered trying to contribute it to the project?
- JoshTriplett 9y agoAgreed completely; this should be natively available in Wikipedia itself.
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y agoWould this work for Firefox, or does it rely on a Chrome-only TTS API?
- rusbus 9y agoShould work fine in FF
- whatnotests 9y agoPlease define IPA FFS ZOMFG KTHXBYE
- marzell 9y agoI see the button and it has mouseover text, but it's not actually clickable. Chrome Version 59.0.3071.115 (Official Build) (64-bit) on Windows 7.
- rusbus 9y agoAh! Nice find. I need css to make it a pointer. Will push a fix for that. You should be able to click the button anyway to hear the audio.
- similaro 9y agoAnother great tool to anyone that likes Wikipedia, but hate to go back & forth between pages, or having multiple tabs all from Wikipedia.. I've developed this with a friend, and never got the time to distribute.. Free, made with love to UX and usability :) Enjoy WikiLinks https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wikilinks/cdlabbcfbmmimjpcekcmoglnejgppncc https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/wikilinks/cdlabbcf...
- cooper12 9y agoWikipedia is actually developing that natively currently as well: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features/Hovercards https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features/Hovercards.
- apearson 9y agoIt seems like once I push the play button I can no longer push the button again. Console Error: ipa.js:38 Uncaught (in promise) DOMException: Cannot decode detached ArrayBuffer Chrome 59.0.3071.115 (Official Build) (64-bit) Mac OS X
- rusbus 9y agoFixed. Thanks for your bug report!
- jf 9y agoThis is amazing, I have wanted something like this for over a decade. I check for something like this every few years. Thanks for making this!
- lodestone6 9y agosomewhat related: is there an extension that, upon mousing over hypertext linked to a wikipage, gives you a preview or summary of that wikipage? I feel like this would be incredibly useful.
- joekrill 9y agoThis is awesome! I can't tell you how many times I've clicked that link expecting it to take me to something more specific about pronouncing the word rather than just a generic page about IPA.