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> drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. "Resveratrol (RSV), a red wine component, and red wine itself exert cardio- and nephroprotective effects

> drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. "Resveratrol (RSV), a red wine component, and red wine itself exert cardio- and nephroprotective effects by modulating the Nitric Oxide system (NO). Elucidating both upstream and downstream molecular mechanisms of the SIRT-1 pathway is an open field of investigation that can explain its role not only in long-term processes, such as aging, but also in short-term processes, such as protection against ischemic damage." [1] Water doesn't do that. If you are talking only about alcohol itself, studies show a link to protecting against heart disease: "The idea that moderate drinking protects against cardiovascular disease makes sense biologically and scientifically. Moderate amounts of alcohol raise levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL, or “good” cholesterol), and higher HDL levels are associated with greater protection against heart disease. Moderate alcohol consumption has also been linked with beneficial changes ranging from better sensitivity to insulin to improvements in factors that influence blood clotting, such as tissue type plasminogen activator, fibrinogen, clotting factor VII, and von Willebrand factor. Such changes would tend to prevent the formation of small blood clots that can block arteries in the heart, neck, and brain, the ultimate cause of many heart attacks and the most common kind of stroke." [2]. So let's work in your terms of drinking alcoholic beverages versus water and let's say you knew you were at a high risk of cardiovascular disease - could alcohol help you over water? Yes the science seems to support that. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932649 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932649 [2] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-story/#possible_health_benefits https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-st...

mothers 9y ago
ok, and will you now cite the studies showing the harm that alcohol does. I shall wait. water has none except in extreme amounts (i'm talking gallons) by the way, anyone can play this game: the benefits of water are virtually limitless: [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11978586 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11978586 [2] aids in weight loss and metabolic control (alcohol makes you fatter) press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-030780 [3] keeps you hydrated [4] improves digestion [5] improves mood https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3984246/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3984246/ [6] improves digestion http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-drink-water#1 http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-drink-water#... the fact is, every time you drink something that's not water, you have the opportunity cost. most of the studies would rank beverages in the following order: 1. water 2. tea 3. coffee . . . 4. red wine 5. white wine 6. misc alcohol/mixed drinks 7. soda
- coldtea 9y ago
  Without alcohol we wouldn't be here today or have any civilisation. How about that? http://archive.onearth.org/blog/beer-saves-human-civilization-again http://archive.onearth.org/blog/beer-saves-human-civilizatio... (Not to mention how much good poetry -- e.g. from Rubayat to Baudelaire's, rock music, and such we would be missing. Nobody cares for tee-totalling rock bands...). >the fact is, every time you drink something that's not water, you have the opportunity cost. And every time you miss on something fun you also have an opportunity cost. Now, if you legitimately don't like the taste or effects of wine, beer etc, more power to you. Or if you like them too much to drink in moderation. But if one likes them, to avoid casual drinking also comes at a cost.
  - mothers 9y ago
    There is no cost to avoiding casual drinking. You can still attend events, you can still hang with friends and you can still go to a bar (shocking). Notice how you have no argument that can't be applied to say, heroin. You can't seriously think that alcohol is healthier than water. And yes the comparison is valid for a drink of alcohol is a potential drink of water.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >There is no cost to avoiding casual drinking. You can still attend events, you can still hang with friends and you can still go to a bar (shocking). No monetary cost. There is a fun and flavour cost. It seems that the fun factor never enters your calculations. >Notice how you have no argument that can't be applied to say, heroin. Except heroin is illegal and uncontrolled (can have any crap in it), so I wouldn't advice using it. If we're talking about recreational drugs in general, they're also OK. >You can't seriously think that alcohol is healthier than water You can't seriously think that this is the be all end all comparison to settle the issue of whether one should drink alcohol. >And yes the comparison is valid for a drink of alcohol is a potential drink of water. First this is a false dichotomy, as large part of any alcoholic drink is water -- literally 90-95% of beer and wine for example. Second, if I do drink my 2-3 litters of water recommended by the health authorities (and in pure water form), would that be enough to stop busting my balls and let me enjoy my beer/wine/etc? Or should I drink nothing but water, lest I miss this huge opportunity cost to drink more water? Are juices allowed? Now, here are two poems for you: You have to be always drunk. That’s all there is to it— it’s the only way. So as not to feel the horrible burden of time that breaks your back and bends you to the earth, you have to be continually drunk. But on what? Wine, poetry or virtue, as you wish. But be drunk. And if sometimes, on the steps of a palace or the green grass of a ditch, in the mournful solitude of your room, you wake again, drunkenness already diminishing or gone, ask the wind, the wave, the star, the bird, the clock, everything that is flying, everything that is groaning, everything that is rolling, everything that is singing, everything that is speaking. . .ask what time it is and wind, wave, star, bird, clock will answer you: “It is time to be drunk! So as not to be the martyred slaves of time, be drunk, be continually drunk! On wine, on poetry or on virtue as you wish.” Charles Baudelaire, 1821 - 1867 Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend, Before we too into the Dust descend; Dust into Dust, and under Dust to lie Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and --sans End! Omar Khayyam - 1120 A.C.E. (And the second guy was even a medieval muslim...)

mothers 9y ago

ok, and will you now cite the studies showing the harm that alcohol does. I shall wait. water has none except in extreme amounts (i'm talking gallons) by the way, anyone can play this game: the benefits of water are virtually limitless: [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11978586 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11978586 [2] aids in weight loss and metabolic control (alcohol makes you fatter) press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2003-030780 [3] keeps you hydrated [4] improves digestion [5] improves mood https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3984246/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3984246/ [6] improves digestion http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-drink-water#1 http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-drink-water#... the fact is, every time you drink something that's not water, you have the opportunity cost. most of the studies would rank beverages in the following order: 1. water 2. tea 3. coffee . . . 4. red wine 5. white wine 6. misc alcohol/mixed drinks 7. soda

coldtea 9y ago
Without alcohol we wouldn't be here today or have any civilisation. How about that? http://archive.onearth.org/blog/beer-saves-human-civilization-again http://archive.onearth.org/blog/beer-saves-human-civilizatio... (Not to mention how much good poetry -- e.g. from Rubayat to Baudelaire's, rock music, and such we would be missing. Nobody cares for tee-totalling rock bands...). >the fact is, every time you drink something that's not water, you have the opportunity cost. And every time you miss on something fun you also have an opportunity cost. Now, if you legitimately don't like the taste or effects of wine, beer etc, more power to you. Or if you like them too much to drink in moderation. But if one likes them, to avoid casual drinking also comes at a cost.
- mothers 9y ago
  There is no cost to avoiding casual drinking. You can still attend events, you can still hang with friends and you can still go to a bar (shocking). Notice how you have no argument that can't be applied to say, heroin. You can't seriously think that alcohol is healthier than water. And yes the comparison is valid for a drink of alcohol is a potential drink of water.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >There is no cost to avoiding casual drinking. You can still attend events, you can still hang with friends and you can still go to a bar (shocking). No monetary cost. There is a fun and flavour cost. It seems that the fun factor never enters your calculations. >Notice how you have no argument that can't be applied to say, heroin. Except heroin is illegal and uncontrolled (can have any crap in it), so I wouldn't advice using it. If we're talking about recreational drugs in general, they're also OK. >You can't seriously think that alcohol is healthier than water You can't seriously think that this is the be all end all comparison to settle the issue of whether one should drink alcohol. >And yes the comparison is valid for a drink of alcohol is a potential drink of water. First this is a false dichotomy, as large part of any alcoholic drink is water -- literally 90-95% of beer and wine for example. Second, if I do drink my 2-3 litters of water recommended by the health authorities (and in pure water form), would that be enough to stop busting my balls and let me enjoy my beer/wine/etc? Or should I drink nothing but water, lest I miss this huge opportunity cost to drink more water? Are juices allowed? Now, here are two poems for you: You have to be always drunk. That’s all there is to it— it’s the only way. So as not to feel the horrible burden of time that breaks your back and bends you to the earth, you have to be continually drunk. But on what? Wine, poetry or virtue, as you wish. But be drunk. And if sometimes, on the steps of a palace or the green grass of a ditch, in the mournful solitude of your room, you wake again, drunkenness already diminishing or gone, ask the wind, the wave, the star, the bird, the clock, everything that is flying, everything that is groaning, everything that is rolling, everything that is singing, everything that is speaking. . .ask what time it is and wind, wave, star, bird, clock will answer you: “It is time to be drunk! So as not to be the martyred slaves of time, be drunk, be continually drunk! On wine, on poetry or on virtue as you wish.” Charles Baudelaire, 1821 - 1867 Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend, Before we too into the Dust descend; Dust into Dust, and under Dust to lie Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and --sans End! Omar Khayyam - 1120 A.C.E. (And the second guy was even a medieval muslim...)