16 ms·

How I learned to code in my 30s

• oblio 9y ago
  Somewhat related, perhaps the most spectacular story of a late coder I've ever heard is that of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pruteanu https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pruteanu (somewhat controversial Romanian literary critic and politician). Basically, despite having a major in Romanian literature and spending a lifetime as a literary critic, with almost 0 contact with computers, he decided in his late 40s and early 50s to understand the things behind the internet. So he picked up on his own: PC usage, internet browsing, PHP and MySQL coding, enough to make his own website and a few apps. That, starting from a point where he could barely use a mouse. When asked during a TV show how he did it, he replied: Like I did things for my literary criticism: I read an 1 meter [high stack] of books about the subject. Every time I need motivation I think about that quote :)
  • flubert 9y ago
    >I read an 1 meter [high stack] of books about the subject. Sounds like a good hook for website. Instead of learn X in 21 days: http://www.1meterofbooks/programming http://www.1meterofbooks/programming
    • samstave 9y ago
      That unit of measurement should be dubbed the Pruteanu As in: "How many Pruteanus until I'll be proficient in ML if I have zero understanding of the subject"
      • quakeguy 9y ago
        So shall it be! 1 Pruteanus (1 Prt) is measured as the amount of learning from a 1m high stack of any books given. obv /s
        • deleted 9y ago
          [deleted]
        • sethrin 9y ago
          You could use some standard figures for page and book size (in Kb) and measure Pruteanus in megabytes of text. And you joke, but there's nothing in particular that is required of a unit of measure other than a lot of people thinking it's a good idea.
          • samstave 9y ago
            Should also consider an information density: This book may look small, but has about .125 Prt in its pages!
            • quakeguy 9y ago
              Golden!
    • photojosh 9y ago
      Given you can get the dimensions of particular books off their Amazon description; looks like it could certainly be done!
    • mrleiter 9y ago
      Domain just sold. Interesting.
  • Barrin92 9y ago
    on the topic of book learning, is there some generally considered principal choice when it comes to learning Haskell? There seem to be some competing ones with widely varying opinion.
    • drostie 9y ago
      There are indeed a lot of competing ones. Highly recommended: • CIS 194 @ UPenn, https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/fall16/ https://www.seas.upenn.edu/~cis194/fall16/ • Haskell Programming from first principles, http://haskellbook.com/ http://haskellbook.com/ • Real World Haskell, http://book.realworldhaskell.org/ http://book.realworldhaskell.org/
      • gaius 9y ago
        RWH is great up to Chapter 4 at which point the wheels come off. LYAH is much better.
    • bgar 9y ago
      Learning Haskell by reading the most influential papers is also a good approach. https://hackwithlambda.github.io/reading-group/ https://hackwithlambda.github.io/reading-group/
      • BoiledCabbage 9y ago
        Not to be rude, but that sounds like a horrible introduction to a language for a beginner. If you're intermediate and want to gain more insights sure. But if you don't even know the syntax it seems like an extremely inefficient way of learning any language.
        • bgar 9y ago
          The first papers in the list explain the "why" of functional programming, and later on more concrete Haskell topics are covered. Papers shouldn't be the only resource but you can supplement them with tutorials and skimming Real World Haskell. This approach of reading papers is intended to be holistic, of course you won't be churning out Haskell code within a couple days, but when learning Haskell or FP, syntax shouldn't be one of the primary focuses imo. Unless you're learning lisp.
• CognacBastard 9y ago
  This is great advice for someone learning to break into the coding world.
• jarsin 9y ago
  What i always tell people if you find yourself naturally drawn to it then you will eventually find some level of success. If your in for just the money then you will not stick with it and it probably won't happen. Same is true for just about most things in life. This guy found he was naturally drawn to it. End of story.
  • udkl 9y ago
    In a sense, you just described the beginning of a passion.
  • ice109 9y ago
    people say this a lot but it's pretty hollow. if you're smart enough you can do it even if you don't like it. anecdotally I'm a fairly good dev (full stack, know several languages, several projects under my belt) and I hate it. the day I move from technical to management will be the greatest day of my life.
    • ryandrake 9y ago
      Careful what you wish for. Management is often the same shit, different sandwich. I agree, however that you can be good at something you don’t necessarily have a burning passion for. That’s why they call it “compensation”–it’s there to compensate you for the time you’d rather be doing something else.
    • jarsin 9y ago
      I honestly have never worked with anyone in software like that. I think you are a lot more rare than you know at least when it comes to software dev. But I do know other industries are filled with smart people that hate it and somehow stuck with it only for the money. For example attorneys...
      • ice109 9y ago
        coincidentally enough i considered law school before i considered my ms in cs :)
      • 9y ago
• projectramo 9y ago
  This is generally a decent article about the balancing non-technical skills, and exerting effort in learning. I found it noteworthy that the "hook" in the title is that the person started in (gasp) their 30s. Why should that be noteworthy? Why wouldn't someone start coding in their 30s, 40s or 50s? Now it is true that starting a new profession late in life may not always make sense because, presumably, you have to little time left you might as well "ride it out" contributing what you know. So, yes, it is unusual for a doctor to start learning mathematics in their 40s (though not unheard of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endre_Szemer%C3%A9di https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endre_Szemer%C3%A9di), but it isn't less strange to make such a change in computer science than any other field.
  • sumoboy 9y ago
    I agree about the age reference, it's irrelevant. If grandma wants to learn javascript then so be it, challenge the brain and code away. I don't find his story that uplifting or even worthy of a challenge that any other 30 year couldn't do.
  • buckbova 9y ago
    > Why should that be noteworthy? Because there's perceived ageism in this industry, so saying you're just getting started in your 30's is interesting.
    • projectramo 9y ago
      Isn't the same ageism -- true or perceived -- in all industries? Would you be feel comfortable starting med-school in your 30s? A PhD? Training to be a plumber or an architect? If anything, because programming takes a shorter time to become productive (say 2 years), I would think it would attract older job switchers. (edit: Before people give me counter-examples, note:I know these things do happen)
      • taurath 9y ago
        Not really. The problem in general is that there are very few active "junior" level positions about, and a lot of people wanting to break in - see /r/cscareerquestions. For later learners especially self taught learners the problem really comes from finding the FIRST job, not the second when they have professional experience. Coming out of college though is a different experience. If you're 33 and just finished a BS in CS you could probably make a run at most jobs. But self taught at 33 requires a lot more to get in the door than self taught at 25.
• dzink 9y ago
  You need more stories like this to show people who wouldn't normally consider CS as a viable, lucrative path to a second career. Areas with high unemployment and people in dwindling old industries may get a second wind in life if they tried his approach. A big change like this also requires multiple exposures to the currently much easier to reach CS education as a possible solution, so I hope more people produce accessible content like this.
  • dschulz 9y ago
    I'm 36 and already feel "old" and unfit to continue pursuing a career as a software developer, which I consider(ed?) my dream job. I began programming at ~20 yo but had to work in another barely related field (still in IT) because where I live it's more profitable as a lone ranger. It's difficult to find peers in my area. I work as an independent consultant wearing many hats, doing all kind of weird network related jobs for small cable operators and small/medium businesses in a shitty country in south america. This includes devops tasks, planning data networks with structured cabling, fiber optics, setting up and maintaining servers, routers, switches and a bunch of appliances that I didn't even know they existed a few years ago (all that ugly shit in HFC networks). I hate my job and feel very unhappy and depressed. I'm on meds, many visits to psychiatrist lately. All these years I kept learning all I can. I'm an avid *nix user, can program in a few languages and have read more about programming languages, libraries, frameworks, etc. that any other subject that I can think of. I dropped out of university only a few years from getting a degree but continued spending my free time learning about software development just because I like it. I enjoyed many detours with many technologies, loved learning Java, C++/Qt, Python, Go, Perl, etc. I spent too much time and money in books, online courses, software licenses, etc that I feel failed and guilty.
    • pacomerh 9y ago
      This mentality makes no sense to me. I don't understand why young people feel old in this area so much. It would make sense if you where pursuing Tennis (the sport), but software? Software is a lot of solving riddles and recognizing patterns. Seriously, Silicon Valley is poisoning peoples minds.
• cr0sh 9y ago
  A possibly similar tale is the one being done by some former Kentucky coal miners: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/fossil-fuels/the-kentucky-startup-that-is-teaching-coal-miners-to-code http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/fossil-fuels/the-...
  • Barrin92 9y ago
    Here's a longer great Wired article about (I think) the same group of coders https://www.wired.com/2015/11/can-you-teach-a-coal-miner-to-code/ https://www.wired.com/2015/11/can-you-teach-a-coal-miner-to-...
    • phlakaton 9y ago
      Another similar group I've been following with great interest, in part since I remember the founders from Strange Loop and Overtone hackery: http://www.minedminds.org http://www.minedminds.org
• makmanalp 9y ago
  Every time I see stuff like this I think of Grandma Moses, an accomplished artist who started painting at 78: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Moses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Moses
• chirau 9y ago
  So do bootcamps teach data structures and algorithms?
  • bdcravens 9y ago
    Generally no. Most jobs building Rails or React apps don't require those skills either.
• analog31 9y ago
  When I was a kid, my mom was teaching high school, and thought that she might get laid off due to declining school enrollment in the rust belt. She took a year of programming courses at a community college. The next year, they asked her to teach the course, which she did. Most of her students were 30+, many were working in the auto industry, including assembly line workers. At the time, there were a lot of bright people working the lines because it had always been possible to skip college and land a decent middle class job at the car plants. But that was coming to an end. Her students were taking one year of CS and getting hired into reasonably decent programming jobs. In fact, I was also interested in programming, and learned it in school. When I went to college, my mom discouraged me from majoring in CS because she literally thought programming was too easy to justify 4 years of classroom training, and she thought that the job market for programmers would quickly saturate. Let's just say we guessed wrong. ;-) But at the time, college level CS was still maturing as a discipline. Many of the 4 year colleges didn't have full blown CS major programs. I'm betting it's harder now, but I honestly don't know if programming per se has fundamentally gotten any harder. Edit: Noting some of the comments, I certainly don't want to disparage the CS degree. After all, I majored in math and physics -- hardly a turn towards a practical training. I think these are fields where you have to be interested enough in the subject matter, to study it as an end unto itself. Being able to do actual practical work in a so called real world setting is always its own beast, no matter what you study.
  • owebmaster 9y ago
    > Let's just say we guessed wrong. ;-) Not that wrong, imho. > my mom discouraged me from majoring in CS because she literally thought programming was too easy to justify 4 years of classroom training, and she thought that the job market for programmers would quickly saturate. This part is real wisdom. The best developers I know (and I myself, which I consider an above average programmer) learned how to program by themselves (before, during or after high school time). And it is not uncommon to find people with CS degree unemployed or with difficult to reallocate with the current state of tech, at least here in Brazil.
    • tuananh 9y ago
• LordHumungous 9y ago
  It's not that hard jeez
• lhuser123 9y ago
  Good inspiring story
• partycoder 9y ago
  "Learning to code" is somewhat vague. The "Sorites paradox" is something like: how many grains of sand form a heap? if you remove or add one, is it still a heap? So, exactly what exactly makes you a programmer? that varies a lot depending on who you ask. Someone said a programmer should be able to detect and report a bug to a hardware manufacturer. Some others say that "learning" (partially, because most programmers don't know every single aspect of a programming language) a general purpose or Turing-complete language makes you a programmer. I define an "X programmer" where X is backend, frontend, data, whatever... as someone who can not only implement a feature, but do it through understanding rather than through a heuristic of trial and error or reusing code. Also, a person that is able to troubleshoot what is going on if some of the underlying systems is not working as expected.
  • Bakary 9y ago
    I would argue that the most relevant definition would have to address a programmer's role in society rather than their level of actual skill. In this sense anyone having learned enough material to have an actionable skill that regularly comes into play in their lives can credibly be said to have learned to code.
• bradcrispin 9y ago
  I once said that "I realize nothing I do in engineering will ever end up on the front page of Hacker News." Feels like a once-in-a-lifetime moment. Thank you
  • ronilan 9y ago
    Been there at the top once upon a time. "We create our own demons."
    • bradcrispin 9y ago
      I couldn't agree more. I had a few paragraphs on impostor syndrome that I edited down to "doubt" but I hope it was implied, you must ignore impostor syndrome. There are always going to be people doing Mount Olympus code and that is great! These are the people we can learn from. I get to build things people use and I love it.
  • tannhauser23 9y ago
    Thanks for sharing your story! I took a similar path: 20s in a career I didn't like, coding bootcamp, working like crazy to get that first software engineering job. Now I couldn't be happier!
• alexee 9y ago
  My father is 59 and started to learn programming half a year ago. So far I was giving him algorithmic tasks to learn basic language constructs, he is now comfortable with basic Java and is able to solve most of easy problems from programming contests. And idea where to go from here? I don't think solving more difficult problems (like that involving algorithms or creative thinking) would make sense at this point. I tried to give him simple GUI project (tick-tac-toe in Swing), this kind of worked with lots of my help, but of course it was badly designed with model-view mixed, and he is unable to understand design pattern concepts at this point.
  • politician 9y ago
    I guarantee you that if your father is 59, that at some point in his life he's found a way to be more efficient at whatever his workload was at the time than a raw beginner. Design patterns are exactly that: patterns of efficiency. The terribad thing about them is that they don't often explain why they are more efficient than the the naive path. I'd recommend that you pose a series of tasks to your dad, and work with him to build them out, rebuilding them several times if necessary, to start that deep understanding of the art. Adopt a posture that this work is critical, and that you are working together. You'll both learn why as you do it.
  • Baeocystin 9y ago
    Give him a real problem to work on. It doesn't have to be big, but it has to be directly relevant to his life. Solving toy problems for fun is a good start, but to get further engagement, you need a reason to be doing x, y, or z.
• soneca 9y ago
  I started to learn to code last November at 37yo. About 30 hours a week for two months I finished the Front End Certificate from freeCodeCamp (highly recommend the site for starters). Then I decided it was better to build my own projects with the tech I wanted to learn (mostly React) using official documentation and tutorials. This is what I accomplished in around 3 months: www.rodrigo-pontes.glitch.me Then I started to apply to jobs. After around 4 rejections, last week I started as Front End Junior Developer (using Ember actually) at a funded fintech startup with a great learning environment for the tech team. Very proud of my accomplishment so far, but I know the rough part is only starting.
  • sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Clickable: http://rodrigo-pontes.glitch.me/ http://rodrigo-pontes.glitch.me/ Congrats on your achievement. :)
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    • soneca 9y ago
      Thanks! (there is nothing fancy in my portfolio, btw, just wanted to share it so people in similar situation can have an idea of how an average output after 6 months of coding could look like)
• colmvp 9y ago
  > Immersion means 100% focus. If possible, no friends, no drinking, no TV, just reading and writing code. If you take five minutes off to read the news, be aware you are breaking the mental state of immersion. Stay focused, be patient, your mind will adapt. Eliminate all distractions, of which you may find doubt to be the loudest. Immersion is the difference between success and failure. Certainly, I think Deep Work require full concentration. So when in the mode of learning, I find keeping focus instead of going to a website to read news, or checking e-mail/messages to be incredibly important in maximizing the incremental process of grasping concepts. That being said, whereas the author seems to prefer taking a few months to go deep into it, I prefer to immerse myself over a long period of time by learning and practicing a few hours per day (just like an instrument), letting my mind stew in the knowledge during diffuse thinking periods, and then come back to it the next day.
  • bradcrispin 9y ago
    I agree that for rapid learning, focus and repetition are essential. I don't think you have to quit your job in order to change careers into coding, but for me it took a very full year of effort.
    • x2f10 9y ago
      Hi, Brad. I'm now embarking on a non-programming learning crusade. I agree with your comments on immersion, but I find it quite difficult to become immersed. I am often distracted or don't have the "energy" to do the serious work I need to to learn. Do you have any tips I can steal from you? Great article BTW!
• jordache 9y ago
  Is a full stack person still realistic with today's web technologies? I mean to build up expert level skillset, you'd have to really dedicate your self into learning the particularities of not just languages but also their runtime environments. Unless you have no life, and only sleep, eat, code, or super intelligent, being able to absorb and stay current with everything..... Other than that, I just don't see the full stack mentality working
  • jamestimmins 9y ago
    The value of being a full stack dev is not to be an expert in everything, as you're right that isn't really feasible. The value comes from being able to do a good job at each piece, so that you can take an entire project from concept to completion. Most full stack folks naturally develop areas of strength and focus within that, either frontend or backend, but still benefit from the fullstack context and mindset. That has been my experience anyways.
    • inimino 9y ago
      It is absolutely feasible.
    • jordache 9y ago
      as an org, what is the value of hiring full stack vs specialized individuals for each part of the stack? I guess one reason is if money is of concern. I can't think of any other reason for doing so.
      • jamestimmins 9y ago
        Money is always of concern. But additionally a full stack can take lead on an entire project. There's also an increased organizational/communication overhead for every additional person you put on a project. It simplifies things a lot if there's a small number of people working on it, even if more devs are available.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• AndyNemmity 9y ago
  I'm 36 and learning how to be a real programmer. Was a Linux Admin, and an architect for my career. Did presales, and became an expert at a lot of different roles within the field. Never was truly a developer, and decided I wanted to accept a job as one. I've programmed in the past, how hard can it be? Wow, it's been enlightening. Really hard. I thought it would be straight forward since I've used scripted quite a bit in perl in my past, but being a developer is much more than writing a few scripts to automate a task. I'm a few months in now, and I am still slower than all my colleagues by quite a bit, and the main language I'm working in has changed already, moved from Python to Go. Even right now, I'm stuck on an issue around pointers and data structures that feels like it should be easy, and I'm just not getting it. All you can do is keep confidence up, and keep at it. Immersing in it, and knowing that irrational levels of effort will lead to results. I thought it would be easier though :)
  • bradcrispin 9y ago
    Soon you will love pointers and structs and everything Go. Keep going (pun intended). Your colleagues are worried about their own work and your manager has made a long-term investment in you, not about the first few months. :) I couldn't agree more that it is tough going when you realize a challenge is more than you expected. That plus impostor syndrome is what caused me to quit on my first try. We are moving a lot of things from Python to Go at the moment and it has been great.
    • AndyNemmity 9y ago
      Appreciate the positive feedback. I certainly feel the management are making a long term investment, but feel my actual team is... concerned about the lack of deliverables. Which I think is fair from their perspective, I think they expected a developer by trade to have assumed the role, and in actuality it's someone who has done a tremendous number of jobs around development. I'd be a bit concerned as well. The great thing is, I'm learning a ton of cool technologies, and already see the major progress on a lot of fronts.
      • mianos 9y ago
• ptr_void 9y ago
  As student trying to make sense of job space and prospects, there's just too many statements that gets posted on the internet that seems to contradict each other.
• brandonmenc 9y ago
  When computers were invented, a lot of the people involved were already adults - plenty in their 40s and above. Before home computers, you didn't get to use a computer until your 20s. Therefore, the first few waves of programmers included a lot of "already olds." This is always overlooked as evidence that older people can learn to program.
  • nstj 9y ago
    This is a terrific observation - really should be the top voted comment.
  • ianai 9y ago
    And the computer science field branched out of mathematics. The age thing, I think, really is just shortsightedness.
    • AstralStorm 9y ago
      Actually cheapness. Young employees don't know their value or how to negotiate.
  • emodendroket 9y ago
    Of course, but they had a strong theoretical background that made it a natural transition. And besides that, nobody would argue that you don't need a fancy medical degree to do medicine because the barber surgeons didn't have one (different circumstances, but I think OK for illustrating the problem with the argument).
  • calc_exe 9y ago
    The concern I usually hear is not around the learning to program aspect. Instead, it's that fact that almost every other entry-level programmer is a college grad, and that hiring processes will be biased against older candidates.
• paul7986 9y ago
  At 31 I took my savings for my house, quit my robotic customer service job and started a startup. I worked on my 1st startup for three years and along the way taught myself front end development and design. Which I now do for a living. I say startup and if it fails like 80 to 90% due you gained an in-demand skill that you can use to make a nice living.
  • martijn_himself 9y ago
    Would you have any advice especially on how to master design skills and how to deal with pressures around personal finance when starting out on your own? I'm about to quit my job in 'enterprise' software development because I am bored to death.
    • paul7986 9y ago
      Save up a lot of money, ask family & friends to invest and apply to incubators that provide seed capital. Also move back in with family if that's an option. This is what I did and it allowed a three year runway to try and make it happen. It didn't happen in terms of a financial success but it was a lot of fun! Way more then working for the man in any field!
• maggotbrain 9y ago
  Reading that makes me glad to be a network engineer. Ethernet, BGP, and OSPF don't change all that much. I am all for learning the latest Python, NetMiko, NAPALM stuff for network automation. This article reads like masochism.
  • torbjorn 9y ago
    mother earth is pregnant for the third time...
• kulu2002 9y ago
  I learnt C, C++, Shell scripting gnu makefile creation directly on project. When I did my degree I only knew C just for sake of passing. I was directly exposed to writing device driver for I2C and SPI the very first day and someone just dumped a 1GB of technical junk on my PC which include some APIs of RTOS I was supposed to work on! But I would say that that was really a steeeep learning curve... I am amazed and surprised today when I look back from where I started 13 years back :)
• kodepareek 9y ago
  I started learning to code when I was 31. Though I did have an engineering degree, but I learnt basically nothing after getting into engg school. Spent most of the 4.5 years worrying whether I was smart enough for this to do this and setting myself up for very dismal results. Became an advertising copywriter after college and spent 7 years in the copy mines. It was truly a profoundly uninspiring industry (though I continued to doubt myself and never really got to where I wanted to and should have) Founded a startup with a friend hoping for a fresh start. Took forever to find a developer so in some strange moment of overconfidence (sanity?) I decided I would take a shot at it and started learning Python. Found myself hypnotized by the codeacademy course and knocked it off in 3 days or less. Some a few started programs then a developer friend came on board as an advisor and told me to pick up Django. In a few months (with him and another good friend doing all the heavy lifting) I got enough into the thing to be able to scrape data, make API calls and develop the admin interface. With everything I learnt I found a block of that constant self doubt melting away. I had never felt so capable and in control in my entire life. Startup wound up though and I had to take a job at a design agency. Though I picked up the basics of HTML and CSS there most of my work was managing clients (aarghh) Left in a few months as a writer at this startup working part time. But within a month of me joining the CTO quit and the company was in massive flux. I just stepped forward and said I would code. The other developers happily took the help and I got my first job as programmer. The next 1.2 years were just full days of writing scripts to automate our workflow and figuring out this danged JS, Node thingy (which I really love now btw) When this place wound up too and I studied React, now have a big 6 month project at this company helping them automate their workflow with an admin app. Am writing the fullstack code, all by myself. Which is so exciting and empowering. Programming is awesome. It's my one advice to anyone who asks me for advice these days. It changed my life completely. From being a constantly depressed and volatile guy I am now fairly confident and really rare to anger. Surprise bonus, I have become far more creatively productive after leaving the creative industry and have written a bunch of songs (that I don't hate) and also started learning to play the Piano, something I always wanted to do. Next up is Algos and Data Structures the next time I have enough saved for a 3 month immersion. I really do think they are super important. Plus picking up a new language. Suggestions welcome.
• sAbakumoff 9y ago
  2017 : codecamps produce an army of amateurs that make interent of shit.
  • onion2k 9y ago
    I've been making websites for over twenty years, and I can assure you that there have always been bad web developers. Some are self-taught and some learned at university. Just as there are good ones who have learned in those ways too. Codecamps are no different - there'll be bad developers and good developers who learned through attending them. There's nothing inherently or automatically worse about codecamp graduates. It's all about the individual.
    • sAbakumoff 9y ago
      Ok, I have been working in IT for 15 years and have seen some shit too..and I would never hire a person who attended codecamp, to me it does not seem to be reliable way to grow a developer. It's more like a trick that only takes the money from people who want to live the software developer life in the Bay Area.
      • RedPandaPounce 9y ago
        Wow that's extremely shortsighted given that there are definitely world class engineers at Google, MS, etc who never had formal training.
        • sAbakumoff 9y ago
          definitely? Do you have any solid base behind this claim?
• teekert 9y ago
  I also learned to code after 30. At some point Excel and Origin weren't dealing well with ever increasing data sizes in my field (biology). I did an intro course on Python (2) of 3 days (basic Python and some Numpy). Back on the job I immediatly switched to Python 3, learned about Jupyter and was lucky enough to have a job where I could take time to learn (although it doesn't take much time to get back up to Excel/Origin level data analysis skills with Pandas/Seaborn/Jupyter!). That combination is still gold for me although bioinformatics is forcing me into VSCode/Bash/Git territory more and more. I can recommend anyone wanting to do data analysis to start with the Jupyter/Python/Pandas/Seaborn combo, the notebook just makes it very easy to write small code snippets at a time, test them and move on. Writing markdown instructions and introductions/conclusions in the document itself help you to make highly readable reports that make it easy to reproduce what you did years ago.
  • Osiris30 9y ago
    Would you know, or can recommend, any good datasets (or practice exercises) using "Jupyter/Python/NumPy/Pandas/Seaborn" for someone with a similar Excel background (and basic understanding of Jupyter/Python/Pandas)?
    • teekert 9y ago
      Seaborn has a standard data set (now that I searched it, it is part of scikit I think) [0], however, I think what made learning fast is that I used the same type of data as I did before and had a clear goal. Excel sheets are easily loaded into pandas: import pandas as pd file = pd.read_xlsx('some_excel_file.xlsx') file # Just typing this will display the file as a table in jupyter, after ctrl-enter to execute the code block To plot: import seaborn as sns %matplotlib inline # This makes the plot appear in the notebook instead of in a separate window sns.violinplot(file) Boom, that is it (assuming the Excel file is a number of columns with labels as the top row). [0] http://scikit-learn.org/stable/auto_examples/datasets/plot_iris_dataset.html http://scikit-learn.org/stable/auto_examples/datasets/plot_i...
      • Osiris30 9y ago
• minademian 9y ago
  contains a lot of real advice. the sharing of experiences and insight into his process makes this piece really great.
• thinkMOAR 9y ago
  The title implies as if you are ever 'finished' with learning to code, anybody thinking about starting, this is a lie, it's a never ending road :)
• cryptica 9y ago
  I've been programming for 13 years. I started when I was 14 years old and studied software engineering at university. These days, when I take on well-paid contract work, sometimes I find myself working alongside people who only started learning to code at around 25 and never went to university. It's upsetting for me to think of all the fun I missed out on in my early life because I was learning programming and pushing myself through university and it turns out that it doesn't even get me a higher pay check in the end. These days, nobody cares that I'm proficient in all of ActionScript 2 , ActionScript 3, C/C++, C#, Java, Python, AVR studio (microcontroller programming), MySQL, Postgres, MongoDB, RethinkDB, PHP, Zend, Kohana, CakePHP, HTML, CSS, Docker, Kubernetes, AWS, JavaScript, Node.js, Backbone, CanJS, Angular 1, Angular 2, Polymer, React, Artificial Neural Networks, decision trees, evolutionary computation, times/space complexity, ADTs, 3D shaders programming with OpenGL, 3D transformations with matrices, image processing... I can't even list them all. I could wipe out 95% of these skills from my memory and get paid the same. It only gives me extra flexibility... Which it turns out I don't need because I only really need two of these languages (C/C++ and JavaScript) and a couple of databases.
  • fidraj 9y ago
    Yes but you can use your advantages. It's only about finding the right opportunity.
  • speedplane 9y ago
    A lot has changed in the past 5 years or so. Anecdotally, 5 years ago I'd bet that 90% of programmers either had a CS background or something very similar (ECE or Comp. Eng.). Today, I think that number is down to 50% or maybe even less. So many of my friends who went to excellent schools but had degrees in Biology, Biotech, Physics, and even some social degrees (including a pianist) now are full-time programmers. I agree with your sentiment though; if you don't need a CS degree to get a CS job, then maybe try something else during college. Take programming courses at your local coding bootcamp.
    • 52-6F-62 9y ago
      To add some anecdotal support: I land in a similar, but different camp. Self taught programmer (started at a young age out of interest), working in the field in sort of a generalist dev position at a large media company. I'm out of practise with my math, but trying to kickstart myself to return to university for studies in Physics. Maybe a bit of a reversal? Programming jobs are a great practical employment solution, but personally I feel compelled by my drive to see behind the curtain too much to settle. As well, to seek out further innovation on the application side I have this sense that there needs to be far more crossover than there is presently. All this and I started out studying English at U of T, and didn't get to finish (financial reasons). And here we are.
• hamersmith 9y ago
  Going from not working in the industry to leading a team of developers in just a few years is extremely impressive. I have over a decade of experience as developer and have not made it yet to that kind of lead position. Is this because your technical skills were superior to your peers or because you possessed additional soft skills, if so, what advice would you give for moving into Lead Developer/Engineering Manager roles?
• mattfrommars 9y ago
  I'm facing problem of finding a mentor and space I want to succeed is being able to do anything with power of Python!
• skocznymroczny 9y ago
  I read this as "How I learned to code in 30s" and I thought it'd be a parody of "Learn X in Y" tutorials.
• sonabinu 9y ago
  I started in my 30s after an earlier stint in high school. It was a real struggle. I work in a SE engineering role now with a focus on data science. My stats and math skills have given me an advantage but I still feel like I'm a rookie in many ways. It is important for more of us who transition to SW careers to speak about our struggles and techniques to hang in there. It will render confidence to those who feel alone as they try to find their footing.
• chrisdotcode 9y ago
  I'm sorry, but I can't help but be incredibly cynical and jaded about this, and from reading the comments, nobody seems to have the same sentiment. If this was titled "How I learned to play the piano in my 30s", I don't think anybody would bat an eye: learning an instrument is not like joining some secret cult, and anybody can develop basic music literacy over a year or two. I also do not doubt this man's proficiency, but 30 is not old outside of tech circles. This youth fetishization in tandem with the "everybody's dog should learn to code" meme I think is very short-sighted. Tech is wildly lucrative, is in current demand, and is not physical labor. That reduces the barrier to entry to anybody who has a laptop and an Internet connection. Honestly how many people would be so eager to learn to code if you dropped down the average tech salary to 45,000 (matching other professions)? I think far less: people seem to learn to want to code to ride the high-pay wave, not for the actual love of code. Again, let's compare to music. Anybody can go to a guitar store and buy a 200$ keyboard. But if I took a 14-week class and afterwards had the aught to call myself a "Music Ninja Rockstar" or some other such nonsense, and start applying to orchestras and bands, I would be called crazy. Software has eaten the world, and it's here to stay. Increasing the general software literacy is no more different than saying we should teach everybody how to read (and a good thing). However, throwing each person in a bootcamp telling them "coding is wonderful! you can master it in 5 seconds and make 200k a year!" is no different than holding a similar bootcamp for any other vocation and then wondering why the average plumber can't actually fix your house, but can only use a plunger. I sincerely hope this trend stops. This mindset is broken, and the paradigm is highly unsustainable. Where will we be in 20 years?
  • Underqualified 9y ago
    In mainland Europe, the salaries for programmers are much more in line with the rest of the workforce, and lower than that of engineers, on average. There's much less of a craze to learn programming here.
    • NotSammyHagar 9y ago
      Part of the reason for the job craze in the us for programmers it that there are increasingly fewer opportunities for unskilled or low skilled labor in the us, as compared to europe. we rarely have internship programs at high schools, and companies are often desperate to find skilled machinists. But also the fact that we pay so much to good devs - that pay is only because of the tremendous worker shortages.
• oweiler 9y ago
  I've started learning to code when I was 26 and people told me I was too old and should stay with my shitty job. Fast forward ten years and I'm a senior software engineer which gives trainings on Spring Boot and Microservices and helps companies implementing Continuous Delivery and Microservice architectures. You may think I'm gifted but I'm actually not. I'm a very slow learner and bad at Math. I mostly program from 9 - 5 and only work on side projects when I'm feeling to (which sometimes means not doing any commits for months). But I like what I'm doing and work hard to improve.
  • overcast 9y ago
    People told you at 26, that you're too old, and should be complacent? I guess maybe if you're trying to be a professional athlete, and this is your first time picking up a ball. But learning to code? That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. Most people don't learn to code until college to begin with, so what, you're a few years behind? That's just silly.
  • richardknop 9y ago
    26 is still young! I would understand if people would tell this somebody who is 56 (9 years from retirement), there might not be enough upside to changing career at such late point. But even then I'd say it might be worth it. But 26 is still a blank canvas you can learn anything easily. I think there might be a bias as many hackers started learning programming when they were 15 years or younger so they assume it has to be like that for everybody.
    • NotSammyHagar 9y ago
      Yeah, that's bull shit, 26 is not too old. I'm 50+, just quit my last job where I was a principal software engineer, did 4 interviews, got 4 offers, took the one that made me director of a project (I have previous management experience too). If you keep coding and don't become just a manager, the world is open to you in software. I have many years of experience and built up expertise, but I was in grad school until I was almost 30!
• digi_owl 9y ago
  I have found that the problem i have with learning programming is not the logic of it, but of memorizing and internalizing all the functionality provided by the standard lib etc.
• commenter1 9y ago
  Why are people making these posts? Learning to code is not hard, finding a job is not hard. Most people would be able to do shitty javascript apps if they only put in the time. Stop posting this shit, please. There are subsections of programming that require math and actual CS, but most programmers never ever touch that stuff. So please, stop posting these useless "how I did nothing special but I need praise" posts.
  • jlewis7272 9y ago
    Because switching careers is hard and scary. Some would find it encouraging to read others accomplishments and the paths they took, in order to do the same.
  • afuchs 9y ago
    > Learning to code is not hard, finding a job is not hard. Most people would be able to do shitty javascript apps if they only put in the time. Stop posting this shit, please. I can make JavaScript apps, but can't find anyone who wants to pay me to do so. Are you hiring?
• logingone 9y ago
  What I found recently of someone who switched from another career to programming is not that they struggled with programming so much but that they struggled with the environment. I had the misfortune of working with an ex-lawyer, two years of programming experience. Hell. He also lacked the ability to have any sort of interesting conversation about programming as he had no background to reference.
• cafard 9y ago
  I learned to code at 18. I did not fall in love with programming: this owed at least in part to Fortran IV, punch cards, and a Burroughs mainframe that was often under maintenance. But I coded a craps game simulation, and passed. I relearned to code at 31 or so. There was data over here that I needed in a different format over there, and didn't care to retype. I taught myself some minicomputer assembler from the instruction set reference. At that same job, I learned to write macros in the OS's command-line interpreter. I found that I enjoyed programming. And I went back to school. That was a while ago, long enough that the second or third language that I learned on my own was Perl 4. I would never have called myself a ninja or a rockstar. Yet I have over the years written some very useful code.