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would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just b

would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.

coldtea 9y ago
>everyone knows drinking is bad for you Citations (plural) needed. Without meta-studies and peer responses in subsequent papers and studies, this is just using a single article for confirmation bias. In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects. Also many places with the most long-lived people on earth have big wine drinking populations (e.g. Icaria). >they do it anyway, because "reasons" They do it anyway because life is not just about avoiding everything "bad for you" or dangerous, but also about doing whatever one likes and having fun, life expectancy be damned -- from mountain climbing to drinking and anything else. >anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. Anyone who disagrees even for casual drinking is probably too afraid of dying -- but they are gonna die the same as everybody else anyway, and often having lived shorter lives than many of their drinking friends.
- mothers 9y ago
  > In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects. Also many places with the most long-lived people on earth have big wine drinking populations (e.g. Icaria). everything here is irrelevant. drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. again, would you give a little kid a beer for the purported "benefits"? No. Because you know it's not better than the alternative. also, there's no proof alcohol is the reason. perhaps it's the social ties that alcohol can help form. regardless, alcohol has little (if any) health benefit, compared to drinking good 'ol water. you claim drinking is good, OK, bring the proof. I claim it's bad. easy to prove: drunkenness, brain toxicity, decision inhibition, to start. not to mention the ability to kill you much easier than water from consistent consumption. > Anyone who disagrees even for casual drinking is probably too afraid of dying -- but they are gonna die the same as everybody else anyway, and often having lived shorter lives than many of their drinking friends. don't b silly. your rationalization of bad behavior is amusing. reminds me of my homeless friend who does cocaine. there are also people who don't drink who live longer than people who do. the point isn't longevity. the point is -- is alcohol what does it? the answer is a resounding "no." everything you're saying here was said about tobacco.
  - crehn 9y ago
    Drinking is fun. Fun is good. Drinking is good.
  - briHass 9y ago
    Check this article out for some food for thought: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/04/01/what-causes-heart-disease-part-xxix/ https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/04/01/what-causes-heart-d... In short, alcohol may be slightly toxic to brain cells, but it may also significantly reduce heart attack risk. Not much value in having a toxin-free brain if you're dead/stroke from CVD.
  - exclusiv 9y ago
    > drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. "Resveratrol (RSV), a red wine component, and red wine itself exert cardio- and nephroprotective effects by modulating the Nitric Oxide system (NO). Elucidating both upstream and downstream molecular mechanisms of the SIRT-1 pathway is an open field of investigation that can explain its role not only in long-term processes, such as aging, but also in short-term processes, such as protection against ischemic damage." [1] Water doesn't do that. If you are talking only about alcohol itself, studies show a link to protecting against heart disease: "The idea that moderate drinking protects against cardiovascular disease makes sense biologically and scientifically. Moderate amounts of alcohol raise levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL, or “good” cholesterol), and higher HDL levels are associated with greater protection against heart disease. Moderate alcohol consumption has also been linked with beneficial changes ranging from better sensitivity to insulin to improvements in factors that influence blood clotting, such as tissue type plasminogen activator, fibrinogen, clotting factor VII, and von Willebrand factor. Such changes would tend to prevent the formation of small blood clots that can block arteries in the heart, neck, and brain, the ultimate cause of many heart attacks and the most common kind of stroke." [2]. So let's work in your terms of drinking alcoholic beverages versus water and let's say you knew you were at a high risk of cardiovascular disease - could alcohol help you over water? Yes the science seems to support that. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932649 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932649 [2] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-story/#possible_health_benefits https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-st...
unit91 9y ago
Man I really wish I could like what you've said here. I too wish people would choose to stay in their right minds (vs. drunk or high), and think hookups are bad. But I also wouldn't give a 5 year old a circular saw, so that can't be the proper rationale. And you've got to be more winsome or you're doing more harm to your view than good.
- bradjohnson 9y ago
  Can I ask why you wish people would stay sober and stop hooking up?
- mothers 9y ago
  a 5 year old (saw the Terrence Tao of dexterity) could theoretically use a circular saw. a saw isn't inherently bad. alcohol as something to be consumed is.
  - EpicEng 9y ago
    Wow you're really going off the rails here huh?
    - mothers 9y ago
      so you have no actual response? OK. giving a circular saw to a child isn't an inherently bad thing. what if it is plastic? is it still bad? what if it is rubber? alcohol, in all forms is bad for a child.
0xffff2 9y ago
would you let a 5 year old drive a car? no? exactly. everyone knows driving is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include needing to get to work and not having good public transit available
- mothers 9y ago
  all other things equal, yes driving is bad for you. what's your point? all of things being equal alcohol is also bad for you. have a drink.
- rorykoehler 9y ago
  You don't give a child alcohol for their own safety. You don't let them drive for everyone else's safety.
EpicEng 9y ago
I bet you're a load of fun. Yes, we know that alcohol is generally not great, but that doesn't mean there's no value in quantifying what "not great means". What was the point of your comment exactly? You sound like a bitter old man who never got invited to parties.
- mothers 9y ago
  > I bet you're a load of fun. Yes, we know that alcohol is generally not great, but that doesn't mean there's no value in quantifying what "not great means". What was the point of your comment exactly? You sound like a bitter old man who never got invited to parties. so you attack the person when you have nothing to say, eh? and no, we don't know, hence the discussion. contribute or move along.
- dang 9y ago
  We've asked you repeatedly to stop posting personal attacks to HN. If you do it again, we will ban you.
Bakary 9y ago
This reminds me of a joke I once saved: A patient asks his doctor: "Do you think I will live to be 80?" The doctor asks: "Do you smoke or drink?" "Oh no," he replies. "I don't do drugs, either." "Do you have many friends and entertain frequently?" "No, I usually stay home and keep to myself". "Do you eat rib-eye steaks and barbecued ribs?" He says, "No, my other doctor said that all red meat is unhealthy!" "Do you spend a lot of time in the sun, like playing golf, sailing, hiking, or bicycling?" "No, I don't," he replies. "Do you gamble, drive fast cars, or have a lot of sex?" "No," He says. "I don't do any of those things." The doctor looks at him and says: "Then why do you care?"

coldtea 9y ago

>everyone knows drinking is bad for you Citations (plural) needed. Without meta-studies and peer responses in subsequent papers and studies, this is just using a single article for confirmation bias. In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects. Also many places with the most long-lived people on earth have big wine drinking populations (e.g. Icaria). >they do it anyway, because "reasons" They do it anyway because life is not just about avoiding everything "bad for you" or dangerous, but also about doing whatever one likes and having fun, life expectancy be damned -- from mountain climbing to drinking and anything else. >anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. Anyone who disagrees even for casual drinking is probably too afraid of dying -- but they are gonna die the same as everybody else anyway, and often having lived shorter lives than many of their drinking friends.

mothers 9y ago
> In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects. Also many places with the most long-lived people on earth have big wine drinking populations (e.g. Icaria). everything here is irrelevant. drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. again, would you give a little kid a beer for the purported "benefits"? No. Because you know it's not better than the alternative. also, there's no proof alcohol is the reason. perhaps it's the social ties that alcohol can help form. regardless, alcohol has little (if any) health benefit, compared to drinking good 'ol water. you claim drinking is good, OK, bring the proof. I claim it's bad. easy to prove: drunkenness, brain toxicity, decision inhibition, to start. not to mention the ability to kill you much easier than water from consistent consumption. > Anyone who disagrees even for casual drinking is probably too afraid of dying -- but they are gonna die the same as everybody else anyway, and often having lived shorter lives than many of their drinking friends. don't b silly. your rationalization of bad behavior is amusing. reminds me of my homeless friend who does cocaine. there are also people who don't drink who live longer than people who do. the point isn't longevity. the point is -- is alcohol what does it? the answer is a resounding "no." everything you're saying here was said about tobacco.
- crehn 9y ago
  Drinking is fun. Fun is good. Drinking is good.
- briHass 9y ago
  Check this article out for some food for thought: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/04/01/what-causes-heart-disease-part-xxix/ https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/04/01/what-causes-heart-d... In short, alcohol may be slightly toxic to brain cells, but it may also significantly reduce heart attack risk. Not much value in having a toxin-free brain if you're dead/stroke from CVD.
- exclusiv 9y ago
  > drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. "Resveratrol (RSV), a red wine component, and red wine itself exert cardio- and nephroprotective effects by modulating the Nitric Oxide system (NO). Elucidating both upstream and downstream molecular mechanisms of the SIRT-1 pathway is an open field of investigation that can explain its role not only in long-term processes, such as aging, but also in short-term processes, such as protection against ischemic damage." [1] Water doesn't do that. If you are talking only about alcohol itself, studies show a link to protecting against heart disease: "The idea that moderate drinking protects against cardiovascular disease makes sense biologically and scientifically. Moderate amounts of alcohol raise levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL, or “good” cholesterol), and higher HDL levels are associated with greater protection against heart disease. Moderate alcohol consumption has also been linked with beneficial changes ranging from better sensitivity to insulin to improvements in factors that influence blood clotting, such as tissue type plasminogen activator, fibrinogen, clotting factor VII, and von Willebrand factor. Such changes would tend to prevent the formation of small blood clots that can block arteries in the heart, neck, and brain, the ultimate cause of many heart attacks and the most common kind of stroke." [2]. So let's work in your terms of drinking alcoholic beverages versus water and let's say you knew you were at a high risk of cardiovascular disease - could alcohol help you over water? Yes the science seems to support that. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932649 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20932649 [2] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-story/#possible_health_benefits https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/alcohol-full-st...

unit91 9y ago

Man I really wish I could like what you've said here. I too wish people would choose to stay in their right minds (vs. drunk or high), and think hookups are bad. But I also wouldn't give a 5 year old a circular saw, so that can't be the proper rationale. And you've got to be more winsome or you're doing more harm to your view than good.

bradjohnson 9y ago
Can I ask why you wish people would stay sober and stop hooking up?
mothers 9y ago
a 5 year old (saw the Terrence Tao of dexterity) could theoretically use a circular saw. a saw isn't inherently bad. alcohol as something to be consumed is.
- EpicEng 9y ago
  Wow you're really going off the rails here huh?
  - mothers 9y ago
    so you have no actual response? OK. giving a circular saw to a child isn't an inherently bad thing. what if it is plastic? is it still bad? what if it is rubber? alcohol, in all forms is bad for a child.

0xffff2 9y ago

would you let a 5 year old drive a car? no? exactly. everyone knows driving is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include needing to get to work and not having good public transit available

mothers 9y ago
all other things equal, yes driving is bad for you. what's your point? all of things being equal alcohol is also bad for you. have a drink.
rorykoehler 9y ago
You don't give a child alcohol for their own safety. You don't let them drive for everyone else's safety.

EpicEng 9y ago

I bet you're a load of fun. Yes, we know that alcohol is generally not great, but that doesn't mean there's no value in quantifying what "not great means". What was the point of your comment exactly? You sound like a bitter old man who never got invited to parties.

mothers 9y ago
> I bet you're a load of fun. Yes, we know that alcohol is generally not great, but that doesn't mean there's no value in quantifying what "not great means". What was the point of your comment exactly? You sound like a bitter old man who never got invited to parties. so you attack the person when you have nothing to say, eh? and no, we don't know, hence the discussion. contribute or move along.
dang 9y ago
We've asked you repeatedly to stop posting personal attacks to HN. If you do it again, we will ban you.

Bakary 9y ago

This reminds me of a joke I once saved: A patient asks his doctor: "Do you think I will live to be 80?" The doctor asks: "Do you smoke or drink?" "Oh no," he replies. "I don't do drugs, either." "Do you have many friends and entertain frequently?" "No, I usually stay home and keep to myself". "Do you eat rib-eye steaks and barbecued ribs?" He says, "No, my other doctor said that all red meat is unhealthy!" "Do you spend a lot of time in the sun, like playing golf, sailing, hiking, or bicycling?" "No, I don't," he replies. "Do you gamble, drive fast cars, or have a lot of sex?" "No," He says. "I don't do any of those things." The doctor looks at him and says: "Then why do you care?"