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I appreciate this article for its smart and cordial criticism, but as I've pointed out before, the decentralization of currency enables the separation of state

I appreciate this article for its smart and cordial criticism, but as I've pointed out before, the decentralization of currency enables the separation of state from wealth, which will, for example, allow people in Venezuela or India to exit their national currency and take control back from their oppressive leaders. The world is already moving to digital cash (see India). The question is whether we want this digital cash to be completely controlled by a central bank or and oppressive leader and traceable by the government, or whether we want this digital cash to be global and decentralized, shared by people of all states. If a person becomes a refugee, they can memorize their brain wallet and cross the border, keeping their digital gold and wealth intact. This is an example of a problem a centralized database cannot solve. (these ideas originate from Andreas Antonopoulos)

isubkhankulov 9y ago
I believe the author was specifically referring to non-currency applications of the blockchain. Its hard to disagree with your comment as the bitcoin blockchain experiment seems to be going well so far.
justinfrankel 9y ago
That's all great sounding in theory, but how exactly would someone in Venezuela go about acquiring bitcoin?
- quantdev 9y ago
  localbitcoins They trade it person-to-person. Sure, it's hard and maybe risky, but it's also risky to keep your wealth in Bolivars when inflation is double or triple-digit percentages. "Some use bitcoins to buy Amazon gift cards, then order goods and food on the online store in the US and other countries, which can then be delivered by courier to Venezuela – where supermarket shelves are frequently empty."[1] [1]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela-bitcoin-economy-digital-currency-bolivars https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela...
pdkl95 9y ago
> enables the separation of state from wealth The largest beneficiaries of a currency that cannot be regulated by governments are the people those regulations currently affected by those regulations.. The average citizen in Venezuela or India generally doesn't have enough money to have to worry about financial regulations. Even if they wanted to take advantage of a blockchain currency, ss justinfrankel suggested, is will be hard for the average person in (e.g.) Venezuela to participate. If refugees had enough cash to make blockchain storage worthwhile, they wouldn't be refugees. Refugees have immediate security and survivability problems, not financial problems. On the other hand, a global currency that cannot be regulated by any government is perfect for moving large amounts of capital to avoid taxes and the limiters, safeguards, and other regulations that try to keep modern markets from catastrophic failure. I cannot think of a more efficient way to destroy modern democracies than taking away one of the only tools governments have to affect the other place power has been concentrating: large businesses. Incidentally, unifying money across countries that have independent economies and monetary policies creates an imbalance that can ruin the participating economies. We've already seen this happen in the eurozone[1][2]. > take control back from their oppressive leaders That fight is political, not financial. You're talking about a Hollywood plot, not the actual daily reality[3] of people living through that kind of conflict. > The world is already moving to digital cash It's very important to have traditional physical cash, because it's the only way to engage in transactions that cannot be controlled or traced[4]. Moving to digital currencies is handing power power to yet more middlemen trying to extract profit and accumulate power. > is whether we want this digital cash to be [...] traceable by the government, Blockchains are a pubic ledger, and will always be traceable by definition. > This is an example of a problem a centralized database cannot solve. A decentralized database cannot solve it either, because it's a political and social problem, not a database or financial problem. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6vV8_uQmxs#t=778 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6vV8_uQmxs#t=778 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP6YSCpm8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP6YSCpm8g [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvAdRntWH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvAdRntWH8 [4] serial numbers are a problem given the power of modern technology. Actually being untraceable requires careful, regular mixing with a different parties.
- quantdev 9y ago

isubkhankulov 9y ago

I believe the author was specifically referring to non-currency applications of the blockchain. Its hard to disagree with your comment as the bitcoin blockchain experiment seems to be going well so far.

justinfrankel 9y ago

That's all great sounding in theory, but how exactly would someone in Venezuela go about acquiring bitcoin?

quantdev 9y ago
localbitcoins They trade it person-to-person. Sure, it's hard and maybe risky, but it's also risky to keep your wealth in Bolivars when inflation is double or triple-digit percentages. "Some use bitcoins to buy Amazon gift cards, then order goods and food on the online store in the US and other countries, which can then be delivered by courier to Venezuela – where supermarket shelves are frequently empty."[1] [1]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela-bitcoin-economy-digital-currency-bolivars https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/16/venezuela...

pdkl95 9y ago

> enables the separation of state from wealth The largest beneficiaries of a currency that cannot be regulated by governments are the people those regulations currently affected by those regulations.. The average citizen in Venezuela or India generally doesn't have enough money to have to worry about financial regulations. Even if they wanted to take advantage of a blockchain currency, ss justinfrankel suggested, is will be hard for the average person in (e.g.) Venezuela to participate. If refugees had enough cash to make blockchain storage worthwhile, they wouldn't be refugees. Refugees have immediate security and survivability problems, not financial problems. On the other hand, a global currency that cannot be regulated by any government is perfect for moving large amounts of capital to avoid taxes and the limiters, safeguards, and other regulations that try to keep modern markets from catastrophic failure. I cannot think of a more efficient way to destroy modern democracies than taking away one of the only tools governments have to affect the other place power has been concentrating: large businesses. Incidentally, unifying money across countries that have independent economies and monetary policies creates an imbalance that can ruin the participating economies. We've already seen this happen in the eurozone[1][2]. > take control back from their oppressive leaders That fight is political, not financial. You're talking about a Hollywood plot, not the actual daily reality[3] of people living through that kind of conflict. > The world is already moving to digital cash It's very important to have traditional physical cash, because it's the only way to engage in transactions that cannot be controlled or traced[4]. Moving to digital currencies is handing power power to yet more middlemen trying to extract profit and accumulate power. > is whether we want this digital cash to be [...] traceable by the government, Blockchains are a pubic ledger, and will always be traceable by definition. > This is an example of a problem a centralized database cannot solve. A decentralized database cannot solve it either, because it's a political and social problem, not a database or financial problem. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6vV8_uQmxs#t=778 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6vV8_uQmxs#t=778 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP6YSCpm8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP6YSCpm8g [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvAdRntWH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmvAdRntWH8 [4] serial numbers are a problem given the power of modern technology. Actually being untraceable requires careful, regular mixing with a different parties.

quantdev 9y ago