6 ms·

In return EU have healthy job market with ~40hr work week and proper healthcare. Most of EU companies are not trying to keep me as developer in a golden cage, o

In return EU have healthy job market with ~40hr work week and proper healthcare. Most of EU companies are not trying to keep me as developer in a golden cage, offering me everything so I wouldn't have to go home anymore. There are many healthy business hubs here in Europe (London, Cardiff-Bristol-Bath, Berlin and many others), maybe they do not have that superstar status as SV but they are still good places to be. Sometimes I wonder if people living in SV bubble thinks that there is no serious tech companies outside SV.

pgtan 9y ago
the only "healthy" in the EU is the EU-Socialism
- vixen99 9y ago
  And the fact that laws are proposed and made by unelected officials in private. Is that the future?
  - omginternets 9y ago
    <presumption alert> Does the U.S., with its Electoral College, really want to go there? This strikes me as throwing stones from a glass McMansion. </presumption alert> More to the point: unhindered, direct-democracy is rarely a good system as it tends to devolve into "majority rule". The case for appointed officials is neither new nor in and of itself undemocratic.
  - GrantSolar 9y ago
    Unless something changed very recently, EU laws are reviewed and adopted by the European Council (Heads of State for each member state) and the European Parliament which consists of elected MEPs
Jyaif 9y ago
> have healthy job market Reminder: the EU's unemployment rate is twice as high as the US'.
- omginternets 9y ago
  The US might have a better job market (by some cherry-picked metrics), but the EU doesn't have a bad one (I'll grant that there are notable exceptions, but then you'll have to grant me the same for certain US states). The point is that you're playing with words. Moreover, you have to factor in things like healthcare, life expectancy, literacy rates, access to education, danger involved in unemployment, crime rates, unemployment pensions, etc if you want to make a useful decision as to which of the two systems is more dysfunctional than the other. -=EDIT=- : viz "cherry-picked metrics", the quality of a job market is more than just the proportion of people employed. Let's not forget other relevant factors: - job stability - employee protection - workplace hazards & injury compensation - vacation & sick leave - retirement pensions - mandated employee benefits (transportation, remote-work assistance, etc.) - maternity / paternity leave - etc
  - eeZah7Ux 9y ago
    ...and the negative externalities: per-capita imprisonment rates, people killed in other countries through war and other means, people killed in the same country, energy usage, waste output, pollution and carbon footprint...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- wutwutwutwut 9y ago
  Do you include jobs which does not pay a livable wage in that comparison?
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Maybe because being unemployed in EU is much less dangerous than in the US?
  - euyyn 9y ago
    lol that's not why we're unemployed in Spain.
- 9y ago
merpnderp 9y ago
From what I've seen, salaries in EU tech hubs are significantly lower than in provincial markets in the US - where weeks are close to 40 hours and managers would laugh at paying for lunch or putting in cots so you can spend the night. Most Americans don't work in the tech hubs, yet still earn significantly more on average. FYI, anyone with a decent job in the US has access to some of the best health care in the world. The US with a far more diverse and unwell population has better outcomes for the cardiovascular diseases and cancer.
- 8draco8 9y ago
  Lower wages are result or bigger social benefits. As mentioned above, it's less dangerous to go unemployed in EU. It's also harder to be kicked out from your job "just because". Health care probably is one of the best in the world but health insurance isn't. I've never heard from any EU citizen that they had to consider either is it worth to call ambulance, I read about situations like that happening in US. If I would get seriously sick in US I could be eaten by my insurer. Health care in EU is also on very high level, even countries that you are usually do not think that much about, like Poland, are arguably leaders in some healthcare fields (Poland have world class specialists in hearth and limbs transplants)
- ionised 9y ago
  > FYI, anyone with a decent job in the US has access to some of the best health care in the world. And have the possibility of seeing their life savings evaporate and facing financial ruin when paying for this health care.
  - merpnderp 9y ago
    You must not be familiar with us health care. Max out of pockets are usually reasonable and certainly not life altering. Try looking up when the crappy plans in the aca.
    - ionised 9y ago
      Example. Old articles, but I don't imagine it has changed all that much; http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/30/costs-of-delivering-babies-vary-widely-in-us-california-cities-most-expensive.html http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/30/costs-of-delivering-babies-va... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31052665 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31052665 That does not seem reasonable to me. What seems reasonable for maternity stay is it being totally free.

pgtan 9y ago

the only "healthy" in the EU is the EU-Socialism

vixen99 9y ago
And the fact that laws are proposed and made by unelected officials in private. Is that the future?
- omginternets 9y ago
  <presumption alert> Does the U.S., with its Electoral College, really want to go there? This strikes me as throwing stones from a glass McMansion. </presumption alert> More to the point: unhindered, direct-democracy is rarely a good system as it tends to devolve into "majority rule". The case for appointed officials is neither new nor in and of itself undemocratic.
- GrantSolar 9y ago
  Unless something changed very recently, EU laws are reviewed and adopted by the European Council (Heads of State for each member state) and the European Parliament which consists of elected MEPs

Jyaif 9y ago

> have healthy job market Reminder: the EU's unemployment rate is twice as high as the US'.

omginternets 9y ago
The US might have a better job market (by some cherry-picked metrics), but the EU doesn't have a bad one (I'll grant that there are notable exceptions, but then you'll have to grant me the same for certain US states). The point is that you're playing with words. Moreover, you have to factor in things like healthcare, life expectancy, literacy rates, access to education, danger involved in unemployment, crime rates, unemployment pensions, etc if you want to make a useful decision as to which of the two systems is more dysfunctional than the other. -=EDIT=- : viz "cherry-picked metrics", the quality of a job market is more than just the proportion of people employed. Let's not forget other relevant factors: - job stability - employee protection - workplace hazards & injury compensation - vacation & sick leave - retirement pensions - mandated employee benefits (transportation, remote-work assistance, etc.) - maternity / paternity leave - etc
- eeZah7Ux 9y ago
  ...and the negative externalities: per-capita imprisonment rates, people killed in other countries through war and other means, people killed in the same country, energy usage, waste output, pollution and carbon footprint...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
wutwutwutwut 9y ago
Do you include jobs which does not pay a livable wage in that comparison?
TeMPOraL 9y ago
Maybe because being unemployed in EU is much less dangerous than in the US?
- euyyn 9y ago
  lol that's not why we're unemployed in Spain.
9y ago

merpnderp 9y ago

From what I've seen, salaries in EU tech hubs are significantly lower than in provincial markets in the US - where weeks are close to 40 hours and managers would laugh at paying for lunch or putting in cots so you can spend the night. Most Americans don't work in the tech hubs, yet still earn significantly more on average. FYI, anyone with a decent job in the US has access to some of the best health care in the world. The US with a far more diverse and unwell population has better outcomes for the cardiovascular diseases and cancer.

8draco8 9y ago
Lower wages are result or bigger social benefits. As mentioned above, it's less dangerous to go unemployed in EU. It's also harder to be kicked out from your job "just because". Health care probably is one of the best in the world but health insurance isn't. I've never heard from any EU citizen that they had to consider either is it worth to call ambulance, I read about situations like that happening in US. If I would get seriously sick in US I could be eaten by my insurer. Health care in EU is also on very high level, even countries that you are usually do not think that much about, like Poland, are arguably leaders in some healthcare fields (Poland have world class specialists in hearth and limbs transplants)
ionised 9y ago
> FYI, anyone with a decent job in the US has access to some of the best health care in the world. And have the possibility of seeing their life savings evaporate and facing financial ruin when paying for this health care.
- merpnderp 9y ago
  You must not be familiar with us health care. Max out of pockets are usually reasonable and certainly not life altering. Try looking up when the crappy plans in the aca.
  - ionised 9y ago
    Example. Old articles, but I don't imagine it has changed all that much; http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/30/costs-of-delivering-babies-vary-widely-in-us-california-cities-most-expensive.html http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/30/costs-of-delivering-babies-va... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31052665 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31052665 That does not seem reasonable to me. What seems reasonable for maternity stay is it being totally free.