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I understand your sentiment and the reaction. But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to trav

I understand your sentiment and the reaction. But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily. Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral and that would really, really suck.

mclightning 9y ago
> "US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA." They have been seeing it all this time, yet this is what you get.
- pas 9y ago
  Change takes time. It's a complex problem deeply rooted in fear, mongered by people who now successfully occupied the White House. In the mean time, I agree, probably a simpler yet more aggressive tit-for-tat approach would be more fruitful.
  - GreaterFool 9y ago
    Nothing has been done about unequal treatment of EU countries in the past decade. Don't you think this is long overdue? For EU it should be a matter of principle and backbone. They simply don't have them. EU has proven several times that they will look the other way as long as it benefits larger members.
    - pas 9y ago
      Agreed. I think the prime example of this is the common energy policy, that then Germany regularly fucks up with the OPAL pipeline deals with Putin.
deleted 9y ago
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saiya-jin 9y ago
this is not eye-for-an-eye, it is fair and equal treatment. if that somebody is behaving like an asshole, most people including me will not just keep pardoning that somebody forever with big smile on our faces. this is how law works, this is how companies, states and societies work.
chippy 9y ago
I agree about not participating in eye-for-an-eye. However I disagree that the US Citzens will percieve their smooth entry experiences with reported obstructive from others. Mainly because most people don't hear about such things, that such events are relatively rare, and that they happen to The Other (literally foreigners). In other words, we shouldn't only expect to rely on the guilt of having a pain free experience to make different others have less pain. I'm not sure how one can improve things, but if it gets worse, they should notice things when conference delegates are barred from attending.

mclightning 9y ago

> "US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA." They have been seeing it all this time, yet this is what you get.

pas 9y ago
Change takes time. It's a complex problem deeply rooted in fear, mongered by people who now successfully occupied the White House. In the mean time, I agree, probably a simpler yet more aggressive tit-for-tat approach would be more fruitful.
- GreaterFool 9y ago
  Nothing has been done about unequal treatment of EU countries in the past decade. Don't you think this is long overdue? For EU it should be a matter of principle and backbone. They simply don't have them. EU has proven several times that they will look the other way as long as it benefits larger members.
  - pas 9y ago
    Agreed. I think the prime example of this is the common energy policy, that then Germany regularly fucks up with the OPAL pipeline deals with Putin.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

saiya-jin 9y ago

this is not eye-for-an-eye, it is fair and equal treatment. if that somebody is behaving like an asshole, most people including me will not just keep pardoning that somebody forever with big smile on our faces. this is how law works, this is how companies, states and societies work.

chippy 9y ago

I agree about not participating in eye-for-an-eye. However I disagree that the US Citzens will percieve their smooth entry experiences with reported obstructive from others. Mainly because most people don't hear about such things, that such events are relatively rare, and that they happen to The Other (literally foreigners). In other words, we shouldn't only expect to rely on the guilt of having a pain free experience to make different others have less pain. I'm not sure how one can improve things, but if it gets worse, they should notice things when conference delegates are barred from attending.