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Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only rec
by qume 9y ago
Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only recently switched to a visa.
After a long flight having to deal with the delay and hassle of immigration seems much worse than it is. I really hate it, and the comments here suggest others do too, but if you look at what we have to deal with objectively it's not really that horrible.
It feels weird for me to be defending them, because of the crappy experiences over the years, but when it comes down to it I think CBP are far more reasonable than they are given credit for because of the crappy environment it happens in. If you were calmly asked the same questions by a sweet guy or girl on a chaise longue while being offered champagne and strawberries, people would have almost no problem even though it's really the same thing without the elevated stress level.
Regarding Daniel - like others here I'm sure it's because cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes he was kicked off the ESTA program. Yes it sucks that they didn't let him know in advance, and they didn't have the smarts to figure that he had nothing to do with the bad actors.
For me getting a visa was a pretty easy process. The interviewer in my country was a smart political science graduate and everything went smoothly. An inconvenience for sure, but hey this is another sovereign nation, why should us foreigners expect to be able to march in without playing by their rules, even if we don't agree with them.
Don't get me wrong - this situation sucks for Daniel and US immigration has massive room for improvement.
- GreaterFool 9y ago> cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes What?! Sources please.
- nickserv 9y agoI once used it to change the user-agent and get an alternative response from an API.
- funnyfacts365 9y agobadass...
- m-j-fox 9y agoI mean, I've personally used it to access APIs from shell scripts that would have been far more maintainable in a proper Python script.
- nthcolumn 9y agoYou monster!
- contingencies 9y agoThat's three counts of conspiracy to degrade system maintainability, manufacturing tooling with intent to degrade system maintainability, possession of tooling to degrade system maintainability, one count of international travel with intent to degrade system maintainability, two counts of manufacture of false documents[0][1] in support of a conspiracy. Bail denied. And... that's life. [0] Exhibit A: man curl [1] CURL website
- joncrocks 9y agoI presume the author of the comment is refferring to incidents such as https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2010/12/23/hacking-me/ https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2010/12/23/hacking-me/ If you write a general-purpose utility and it gets included in some kind of bad software, the people writing the 'bad' parts aren't likely to include their details, but if your 'good' code has your details....
- rev 9y ago"I once saw him kill three men in a bar with a pencil, with... a... f#@king... pencil." © John Wick
- qume 9y agoIf an attackers rouge process lands itself on a target, using something trusted like cURL is better than opening a socket directly, no? Less likely to attract attention? Same goes for wget, links, etc. Sorry no sources, it won't take you long to verify this yourself using google. I'm sure there are competent infosec guys and gals here who can provide a better explanation.
- funnyfacts365 9y agorogue, not rouge.
- buremba 9y agocurl -i -X POST http://SOME_TERRIBLE_WEBSITE/api/people/SSN/kill http://SOME_TERRIBLE_WEBSITE/api/people/SSN/kill
- skynode 9y ago> Regarding Daniel - like others here I'm sure it's because cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes he was kicked off the ESTA program. Yes it sucks that they didn't let him know in advance, and they didn't have the smarts to figure that he had nothing to do with the bad actors. Very strange paragraph right there. I could easily generalize this to Windows powershell is increasingly being used in cyber offensives by non-state actors, let us eject Microsoft from the United States
- qume 9y agoYes you can generalize this to Windows powershell. And no that does not have anything to do with ejecting Microsoft from the US. Microsoft isn't a private foreign individual using a privileged entry mechanism in the US that given any reason whatsoever can be revoked in favour of a perfectly functional visa process that most countries have to use. ESTA is only available to a few countries, and not all people in those countries. I don't think Microsoft will be ejected from the US because of an ESTA invalidation.
- skynode 9y agoGreat. So what does this rejection accomplish based on your premise of having written software that has been repurposed by evil actors? Dan's GPS coordinates at any time t does not affect whether he writes code that will be used for good or evil, so what gives? :\
- tgragnato 9y agoNo one should be held responsible for a fact that causes damage without direct involvement. The legal system uses `iuris personae` and limited liability precisely for this. Distinguishing a natural person from a legal person in this case is contrary to the purpose of the laws in force. Each tool can be used for good and for evil: risk management is primarily used to hedge against the risk of a contingent, uncertain loss, and is embedded by the law for companies, and people too.
- qume 9y ago
- jorvi 9y ago> If you were calmly asked the same questions by a sweet guy or girl on a chaise longue while being offered champagne and strawberries, people would have almost no problem even though it's really the same thing without the elevated stress level. Cute girl offers glass of champagne and complimentary strawberry 'so.. I'm gonna need you to unlock your phone, give me the password to your work-related e-mail, your personal e-mail and all your social media accounts.'
- qume 9y agoI travel into the US constantly, as do many people I know, and I have never in person come across a single person this has happened to. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it's easy to blow this stuff out of proportion. That's what I'm trying to do here - offer the view of someone who does this every few months for nearly two decades.
- pjc50 9y agoA popular tactic of intelligence agencies, Mata Hari passim.
- ubernostrum 9y agoI don't think it has anything to do with what software he works on. I'd be willing to bet significant money that it was either a clerical error, or something mundane from his ESTA form that got double-checked and came up "no". I am willing to bet this because I have been in that situation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14643861 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14643861
- baby 9y ago> For me getting a visa was a pretty easy process Just because it went well for you doesn't mean you have to turn a blind eye for other people. As soon as you don't come from a list of "nice" countries crossing borders is a living hell.
- Veratyr 9y ago> but when it comes down to it I think CBP are far more reasonable than they are given credit for because of the crappy environment it happens in I don't think this is true. The circumstances/environment are the same but compare entering America to entering any other country. No country but America has ever fingerprinted me, searched my luggage, detained me in a small room with no explanation for 3 hours, forced the departing airport to search me again after security (on 3 separate but consecutive flights to the US, months apart) or made me spend more than ~10 minutes in a line waiting to get through security or immigration. America has done all of these things.