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I was in high school when I first read this opinion (I did not remember it was Socrates though). Also, I learned that Gaul, pre-roman France (where I lived), ha
by Iv 9y ago
I was in high school when I first read this opinion (I did not remember it was Socrates though). Also, I learned that Gaul, pre-roman France (where I lived), had a society where the priests/judges, the druids, were forbidden to write down their knowledge.
It fascinated me. The idea that books, that were more or less revered depositories of knowledge, could have been seen as anti-intellectual at one time. It pushed me into memorizing stuff. I think it had an unanticipated effect. I thought it would help my overall cognitive capabilities and make me maybe better at science and maths but instead, it gave me a taste for poetry.
If you learn poetry for the sake of it, not because you have a recitation exercise, after a while, it become easy. It is not like memorizing the digits of pi: good poetry has a flow. A flow of sounds, a flow of words, a flow of meanings and a flow of emotions. It is easy to dismiss them when you simply read it, but having to learn it makes you connect deeply to the meaning. Hearing it also has a different effect. I now understand why poems, that I used to find uninteresting when skimming over them in books were actually so highly regarded back in the time.
That was an interesting experience, but Socrates missed a trend that continues nowadays: the volume of accessible information grows. We need faster processing modes. We need written text so we can skim through a page and dismiss it in a few minutes. We can't do that with oral transmission.
That must not make us forget that deeper modes of thought exist. Once we have googled the words we did not know, wikipediaed the summary of the knowledge we lacked, we must fight the urge to keep the flow of information going, reach out to the off button, and dare to stay an hour or two with our mind. Thinking.
We memorize things by exerting recalls. We understand things by banging our heads over what we don't understand about them. Acquiring the knowledge is just the first step of acquiring understanding.
In this day and age meditation becomes popular amongst intellectuals for a reason, but even if you are not into meditation, do yourself a favor when you learn new things: think about them with only your brain for an hour or two. Thinking does take time but without it information gathering is useless.
- cheapsteak 9y agoRecommendations on intro texts for poetry?
- Iv 9y agoDo like most people these days: learn song lyrics! Songs are really poetry. Some have very deep meaning and good flow. Some will probably resonate with your own feelings. Otherwise I have only bad recommendations in French, but I learned almost all of Cyrano de Bergerac's play and still remember maybe a third of it. In it, "La ballade du duel" flows very well and "la tirade des nez" is a classic that is a very good exercise. I have no clue about English poetry. Despite having a decent written English level, I could never get into poetry in English. I think my pronunciation is not good enough and I have a hard time knowing how some more rare words, common in poetry, are actually pronounced. I would love to have the courage to get into Paradise Lost at one point.
- 52-6F-62 9y agoI'd love to weigh in here. When I was young I took part in a lot of weekday groups in a Christian church (rural Ontario, pretty much the mode out there at that time). One of our regular practices was being rewarded for perfectly memorizing passages. I recall being able to recite entire chapters, and soon entire books after practice. I ended up doing some acting as a kid and had no difficult time memorizing scripts after all of that. But later in my high school years and into university I loved poetry, and tried to keep a few favourites in memory (and still do) because they inevitably become relevant at some point, and I find it a comfort. Just find something you enjoy reading first off. The technicals of craft are arbitrary if you enjoy it. If you don't read much poetry and ever want suggestions, I'd love to contribute! edit: fixed a typo
- subdane 9y agoWestern Wind: An Introduction to Poetry
- Bakary 9y agoYou can also try starting with an author whose themes or circumstances evoke a strong emotional response in your mind. This is likely to be more effective at getting you hooked in comparison to a text that provides a general introduction. In my case, it was Wilfred Owen who provided the initial spark.
- theerosion 9y ago
- samplatt 9y agoI feel that you would adore Dan Simmons first two "Hyperion" books. They're predominantly about poetry and how it's affected the human race, far into the future.
- Cerium 9y agoI second the opinion, although I loved the second two, the Endymion books best.
- proaralyst 9y agoInteresting! I was told to avoid them when I was introduced to Hyperion. I'll check those two out...
- Piskvorrr 9y agoAvoid the sequels, for sure. The original diptych is wonderful.
- pivotal 9y agoThe Hyperion books also have some interesting (and prescient) things to say about humans relying on a vast network of information instead of their own memories. They are some of my favorites.
- infogulch 9y agoThis really speaks to me. I have trouble remembering things, even important things that I know I will want to remember in the future. I forget or it gets fuzzy. Sometimes I can remember better once my memory is jogged, but I can't recall it on demand. That means that things that I should be able to associate pretty easily are never put together unless it's made painfully obvious and explicit. It's a been a point of frustration for me and the people I'm closest with for several years now. It doesn't seem to affect work nearly as much. I've had a feeling that it's because I don't let myself just think. Your comment makes me even more sure of this. I've developed habits since I was a teenager to keep my brain constantly busy, always either consuming or producing something. But never integrating or just thinking. It seems I need to replace some habits.
- dahoramanodoceu 9y agoYou are right. Consolidating and ruminating are essential. Feeling bored is important. Having the patience to tolerate it is a very important skill.
- bitexploder 9y agoOr ADHD. What you describe is one of the symptoms in the cluster of ADHD. Attention deficit is real. A part of your brain may not be developed quite fully. > I've had a feeling that it's because I don't let myself just think. I feel your frustration here. The best way I can describe what prescription stimulants do for me is give me just enough space and perception of time that I can pause and think. Otherwise my mind just keeps going on cruise control with shallow cognitive load chores. Deep in a programming bug or reversing project my mind is stimulated and dopamine is being released. In the zone my brain feels fully alive and attentive (without meds). Outside of things that deeply stimulate me it is always a challenge. Meditation, exercise, nutrtion, and CBT all help. They chip away at the undesirable behavior. For many it is enough.
- Chris2048 9y agoYou could try meditation/CBT etc. But at the same time, basics like exercise, good sleep(+), low stress, healthy eating (fewer stimulants) etc can all affect memory - It's hard to diagnose any particular cause of poor memory with all these variables. (+) As an aside, I've sometimes found too much sleep can cause me to be less alert!? Maybe it's related to "mind-busyness"? Like how the "Balmer-peak" seems to operate on reducing overthinking via the confidence/fuzz-increasing effect of alcohol.
- mrleiter 9y agoThank you for one of the more beautiful comments I've read here on HN recently (or quite frankly for a long time).
- Iv 9y agoThanks, I am really surprised by the score it reached!
- kdeldycke 9y agoWriting is the spatialization of time. Speaking is the temporalization of space.
- jabv 9y agoI think your balance (incorporating a deeper mode of thought and appreciation of memorization without abandoning modern information processing) is unusual and extremely admirable. Thanks for sharing your experience.