5 ms·

Apple's offering is currently further reaching, but I won't be surprised, if in the coming years, most high end smartphones start shipping with tango-like hardw

Apple's offering is currently further reaching, but I won't be surprised, if in the coming years, most high end smartphones start shipping with tango-like hardware, especially if AR's appeals broadens. ARKit should certainly be a contributor to that.

astrodust 9y ago
Android's at a huge disadvantage here. If it requires special hardware and a special version of the OS it's going to take half a decade to ripple through that ecosystem and take hold. Meanwhile Apple's preparing to ship it as standard in iOS 11.
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  What exactly is the iPhone doing that any Android flagship phone can't do? Android flagships have already had the better camera's for a couple of years and I don't see that crown reverting back to the iPhone anytime soon.
  - function_seven 9y ago
    1) They're getting their devices updated. 2) Only a small portion of Android phones are "flagship". The rest aren't. The crazy fragmentation of the Android ecosystem makes the real marketshare for something like this small and a long way away. Android phones are still at the mercy of carriers and OEMs. Google doesn't have the ability to push out the latest OS like Apple does.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      >They're getting their devices updated. I was looking for a technical answer instead of the same old rhetoric. Adding this additional functionality to Google Play Services and to the Support Library would make it available to all devices using GMS. >Only a small portion of Android phones are "flagship" This is a ridiculous statement. Do you have any numbers to back up your claim that only a small portion of Android phones are flagships? Any phone with an SnapDragon 8 series SoC, Exynos 8 series SoC, Kirin 9 series SoC would easily be able to handle this.
      - function_seven 9y ago
        Fair enough. As far as I know, Android handsets should be able to do this as well. I’m mostly a layperson, so I don’t know what technical specifics separate the chipsets on each device. My interpretation of “flagship” is the Pixel or (formerly) the Nexus lines. What Google considers the flagships. I could also be interpreting that incorrectly. I’m just used to Samsung, LG, and Moto having some level of control and obstruction on when their phones get OS-level updates. Not sure if the Play store apps have enough system-level permissions to implement whatever core services would be needed to support an SDK for other apps to use. “Same old rhetoric” seems a bit unfair. It’s been my observation for a while now that you can’t rely on any given Android phone to have the latest OS installed. They usually don’t. (EDIT: And that usually means features can’t be relied upon for app developers, which is why it’s relevant here.)
        bitmapbrother 9y ago
        A flagship phone in the Android world is anything that uses the latest and greatest SoC. And right now that's usually anything with an SD 835, Exynos 8895 and Kirin 960. >It’s been my observation for a while now that you can’t rely on any given Android phone to have the latest OS installed. They usually don’t. (EDIT: And that usually means features can’t be relied upon for app developers, which is why it’s relevant here.) The major features usually require an OS update, but Google has been compartmentalizing the OS for some time and making things downloadable from the Play store or available via Google Play Services. They also use a Support Library to backport new API's to older OS versions.
        function_seven 9y ago
        Thanks. My understanding seems a couple years out-of-date.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Those updates don't ship neither kernel nor driver updates, which are actually what matters in AR, given the sore state of OpenGL and Vulkan support across Android devices. It doesn't matter what SoC a device has, if the OS only sees a buggy OpenGL ES 2.0 driver.
  - Steko 9y ago
    The idea that the iPhone is some also-ran in the camera department is laughable. Anandtech iPhone 7/+ review, summary of camera: I would say that the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus could both use a bump in sensor size to really be the best in all situations, but as-is they’re the most well-rounded for stills even if the HTC 10 can definitely produce better images in a number of scenarios... In video capture there’s almost no competition... http://www.anandtech.com/show/10685/the-iphone-7-and-iphone-7-plus-review/10 http://www.anandtech.com/show/10685/the-iphone-7-and-iphone-...
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      I didn't say the iPhone camera is some also-ran. It's still a very good camera (these phones all use the same Sony sensors for the most part so it all comes down to processing). I simply said that it's not considered the best camera anymore and that it has been repeatedly surpassed by Android phones. Android phones are now the kings of the smartphone world. The DXOMark rankings say it all and there's a lot of Android phones ahead of the iPhone. Regardless of what you think of the DXOMark rankings, the reviews of each of these high ranked Android phone camera's already support the DXOMark rankings.
      - Tanegashima 9y ago
        > the DXOMark rankings Paid advertising.
      - Steko 9y ago
        > Android phones are now the kings of the smartphone world. Citation needed. There's a lot of good phones on the market but the iPhone is still as good as anything - best OS, best CPU, tier 1 battery life/GPU/camera screen. The first phone to consistently beat it in ratings over nearly a decade was the Note 7 and we all saw how that turned out and the mere fact that Samsung drops all their plans and engineers around Apple's leaks should be enough to tell you who the king is. > The DXOMark rankings say it all They haven't even reviewed the 7+ so no they don't say what you want them to.
        9y ago
  - proyb2 9y ago
    1. Vulkan vs Metal 2 in fragmentation devices. All Apple SDK include CoreML is running on top of Metal 2. If I'm right, only a small number of Android apps and 3D gaming utilize Vulkan. 2. Pushed for Healthcare, Android lack the ability to safeguard patients' data since Android is open source and could be steal 3. ARKit is one of the many AR out there, still early to judge whether iOS can get AR wide adoption by developers, it's easy to develop while Androis flagships could work on AR using 3rd parties SDK seem not as smooth as ARKit without Tango enabled and need lot of testing on different devices than on iPad and iPhone. 4. Camera quality are subjective, Flickr have plenty to show creative photography. I always feel most flagships can take good and bad photos just like DSLR, if you don't know how, you are just an owner, not a photographer. Just like, you are just a player, not a professional. HEIF is an awesome format which can recreate bokeh close to DSLR and other effects without a specialize hardware.
    - ghshephard 9y ago
      "HEIF is an awesome format which can recreate bokeh close to DSLR and other effects without a specialize hardware." HEIF has certain desirable compression (and other) properties for storage, but that is entirely orthogonal to bokeh, which is an optical visual characteristic that is generated (optically or algorithmically) during capture. And, needless to say, we're several generations away from an iPhone class camera having enough depth differentiation to come close to any Circa 2000 DSLR's bokeh. Right now bokeh on the iPhone is an awkward techology demo, which more often than not doesn't quite work. Yet.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      1. All devices running Android N and above have Vulkan. Although, I still fail to see why OpenGL ES could not be used as a fallback. 2. Android being open source does not make it unsuitable for safeguarding patient data. I'm surprised you would even mention this as it undermines your entire argument. The open source nature of Android actually makes it more secure because you have more eyes on the code. Security through obscurity is always less secure. 3.Google could also provide a variation of the Tango SDK to support normal devices.
  - simonh 9y ago
    Calibration. Apple devices are famously consistently and well calibrated. Android phones, even high end ones, are all over the place. This doesn't matter for games, you just get used to the 'feel' of the controls for your device and if the sensitivity of another device is different who cares? But for AR precise and consistent calibration of all the sensors is essential.
scarface74 9y ago
If you are a developer, still which one is more appealing? iOS ARKit requirements - any phone that runs iOS 11. Android Tango requirements - a) the latest Android OS -- judging by history a year out it will only get around 10% penetration (https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html) b) a high end Android device - with the average selling price of an Android phone hovering around $220 (http://fortune.com/2016/02/15/apple-android-asps/ http://fortune.com/2016/02/15/apple-android-asps/), there aren't that many high end Android phones being sold.
- sjwright 9y ago
  To be fair, requirement (b) implies (a)... Except when it doesn't. Yay, Android ecosystem.
Tanegashima 9y ago
Android will never have this. Quid dreaming.

astrodust 9y ago

Android's at a huge disadvantage here. If it requires special hardware and a special version of the OS it's going to take half a decade to ripple through that ecosystem and take hold. Meanwhile Apple's preparing to ship it as standard in iOS 11.

bitmapbrother 9y ago
What exactly is the iPhone doing that any Android flagship phone can't do? Android flagships have already had the better camera's for a couple of years and I don't see that crown reverting back to the iPhone anytime soon.
- function_seven 9y ago
  1) They're getting their devices updated. 2) Only a small portion of Android phones are "flagship". The rest aren't. The crazy fragmentation of the Android ecosystem makes the real marketshare for something like this small and a long way away. Android phones are still at the mercy of carriers and OEMs. Google doesn't have the ability to push out the latest OS like Apple does.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    >They're getting their devices updated. I was looking for a technical answer instead of the same old rhetoric. Adding this additional functionality to Google Play Services and to the Support Library would make it available to all devices using GMS. >Only a small portion of Android phones are "flagship" This is a ridiculous statement. Do you have any numbers to back up your claim that only a small portion of Android phones are flagships? Any phone with an SnapDragon 8 series SoC, Exynos 8 series SoC, Kirin 9 series SoC would easily be able to handle this.
    - function_seven 9y ago
      Fair enough. As far as I know, Android handsets should be able to do this as well. I’m mostly a layperson, so I don’t know what technical specifics separate the chipsets on each device. My interpretation of “flagship” is the Pixel or (formerly) the Nexus lines. What Google considers the flagships. I could also be interpreting that incorrectly. I’m just used to Samsung, LG, and Moto having some level of control and obstruction on when their phones get OS-level updates. Not sure if the Play store apps have enough system-level permissions to implement whatever core services would be needed to support an SDK for other apps to use. “Same old rhetoric” seems a bit unfair. It’s been my observation for a while now that you can’t rely on any given Android phone to have the latest OS installed. They usually don’t. (EDIT: And that usually means features can’t be relied upon for app developers, which is why it’s relevant here.)
      - bitmapbrother 9y ago
        A flagship phone in the Android world is anything that uses the latest and greatest SoC. And right now that's usually anything with an SD 835, Exynos 8895 and Kirin 960. >It’s been my observation for a while now that you can’t rely on any given Android phone to have the latest OS installed. They usually don’t. (EDIT: And that usually means features can’t be relied upon for app developers, which is why it’s relevant here.) The major features usually require an OS update, but Google has been compartmentalizing the OS for some time and making things downloadable from the Play store or available via Google Play Services. They also use a Support Library to backport new API's to older OS versions.
        function_seven 9y ago
        Thanks. My understanding seems a couple years out-of-date.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Those updates don't ship neither kernel nor driver updates, which are actually what matters in AR, given the sore state of OpenGL and Vulkan support across Android devices. It doesn't matter what SoC a device has, if the OS only sees a buggy OpenGL ES 2.0 driver.
- Steko 9y ago
  The idea that the iPhone is some also-ran in the camera department is laughable. Anandtech iPhone 7/+ review, summary of camera: I would say that the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus could both use a bump in sensor size to really be the best in all situations, but as-is they’re the most well-rounded for stills even if the HTC 10 can definitely produce better images in a number of scenarios... In video capture there’s almost no competition... http://www.anandtech.com/show/10685/the-iphone-7-and-iphone-7-plus-review/10 http://www.anandtech.com/show/10685/the-iphone-7-and-iphone-...
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    I didn't say the iPhone camera is some also-ran. It's still a very good camera (these phones all use the same Sony sensors for the most part so it all comes down to processing). I simply said that it's not considered the best camera anymore and that it has been repeatedly surpassed by Android phones. Android phones are now the kings of the smartphone world. The DXOMark rankings say it all and there's a lot of Android phones ahead of the iPhone. Regardless of what you think of the DXOMark rankings, the reviews of each of these high ranked Android phone camera's already support the DXOMark rankings.
    - Tanegashima 9y ago
      > the DXOMark rankings Paid advertising.
    - Steko 9y ago
      > Android phones are now the kings of the smartphone world. Citation needed. There's a lot of good phones on the market but the iPhone is still as good as anything - best OS, best CPU, tier 1 battery life/GPU/camera screen. The first phone to consistently beat it in ratings over nearly a decade was the Note 7 and we all saw how that turned out and the mere fact that Samsung drops all their plans and engineers around Apple's leaks should be enough to tell you who the king is. > The DXOMark rankings say it all They haven't even reviewed the 7+ so no they don't say what you want them to.
      - 9y ago
- proyb2 9y ago
  1. Vulkan vs Metal 2 in fragmentation devices. All Apple SDK include CoreML is running on top of Metal 2. If I'm right, only a small number of Android apps and 3D gaming utilize Vulkan. 2. Pushed for Healthcare, Android lack the ability to safeguard patients' data since Android is open source and could be steal 3. ARKit is one of the many AR out there, still early to judge whether iOS can get AR wide adoption by developers, it's easy to develop while Androis flagships could work on AR using 3rd parties SDK seem not as smooth as ARKit without Tango enabled and need lot of testing on different devices than on iPad and iPhone. 4. Camera quality are subjective, Flickr have plenty to show creative photography. I always feel most flagships can take good and bad photos just like DSLR, if you don't know how, you are just an owner, not a photographer. Just like, you are just a player, not a professional. HEIF is an awesome format which can recreate bokeh close to DSLR and other effects without a specialize hardware.
  - ghshephard 9y ago
    "HEIF is an awesome format which can recreate bokeh close to DSLR and other effects without a specialize hardware." HEIF has certain desirable compression (and other) properties for storage, but that is entirely orthogonal to bokeh, which is an optical visual characteristic that is generated (optically or algorithmically) during capture. And, needless to say, we're several generations away from an iPhone class camera having enough depth differentiation to come close to any Circa 2000 DSLR's bokeh. Right now bokeh on the iPhone is an awkward techology demo, which more often than not doesn't quite work. Yet.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    1. All devices running Android N and above have Vulkan. Although, I still fail to see why OpenGL ES could not be used as a fallback. 2. Android being open source does not make it unsuitable for safeguarding patient data. I'm surprised you would even mention this as it undermines your entire argument. The open source nature of Android actually makes it more secure because you have more eyes on the code. Security through obscurity is always less secure. 3.Google could also provide a variation of the Tango SDK to support normal devices.
- simonh 9y ago
  Calibration. Apple devices are famously consistently and well calibrated. Android phones, even high end ones, are all over the place. This doesn't matter for games, you just get used to the 'feel' of the controls for your device and if the sensitivity of another device is different who cares? But for AR precise and consistent calibration of all the sensors is essential.

scarface74 9y ago

If you are a developer, still which one is more appealing? iOS ARKit requirements - any phone that runs iOS 11. Android Tango requirements - a) the latest Android OS -- judging by history a year out it will only get around 10% penetration (https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html) b) a high end Android device - with the average selling price of an Android phone hovering around $220 (http://fortune.com/2016/02/15/apple-android-asps/ http://fortune.com/2016/02/15/apple-android-asps/), there aren't that many high end Android phones being sold.

sjwright 9y ago
To be fair, requirement (b) implies (a)... Except when it doesn't. Yay, Android ecosystem.

Tanegashima 9y ago

Android will never have this. Quid dreaming.