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I'm guessing you might get a cease and desist. Instagram just shutdown Instagress, MassPlanner and others. Granted this isn't a bot but scrapers usually aren't

I'm guessing you might get a cease and desist. Instagram just shutdown Instagress, MassPlanner and others. Granted this isn't a bot but scrapers usually aren't met with much love either. Especially if you start selling the data.

opportune 9y ago
Do the companies have a claim to the actual data if they make it publicly accessible (intentionally)? Curious as to whether there have been any court cases over this. I'm sure you can't republish it anywhere, but if for example I wanted to scrape some basic demographic data off FB and use it as part of an ML model, would there be something wrong with that?
- detaro 9y ago
  Just because it's publicly accessible doesn't mean anyone who can access it gets usage rights on it, but some metadata might not qualify for protection. There is also the issue of ToS forbidding it, with varying legal consequences – and this site requires you to log in with Twitter/Facebook, so they have accepted a developer agreement with the service, which might forbid what they are doing.
  - opportune 9y ago
    There are different forms of usage rights, though. Like I said, I'm positive it would not be a good idea to simply republish all of FB/insta/twitter's data elsewhere, but just as some software licenses allow you to use the code however you want so long as you do not redistribute it, I'm wondering if there are legal/ToS policies that allow limited use of the data (or specifically, what the official policies of these companies are w.r.t this).
- MechanicalTwerk 9y ago
  INAL but usually the data, or at least some portion of it, is owned by the users and the service's TOS and Privacy Policy will state how the service is allowed to use it. So they have a responsibility to keep their users' data protected to the degree specified in those policies. But really, the data is usually the service's biggest asset when it comes to creating an advertising business which is maybe the biggest reason they want to protect it. But data aside, the company owns the servers you are sending requests to in order to get the data. So that opens another angle for them to litigate. This is where things like robots.txt comes in which I don't think has ever fully played out in court. Yet another angle to go after folks on is the use of trademarks in any marketing copy. It's hard to sell Instagram bots and scrapers if you can't use the word Instagram. I don't even really think a lawyer would have a clear cut answer without going to court but the cease and desist is usually enough to scare people into shutting down. MassPlanner was a pretty widely used piece of software so you'd have to imagine it was making at least a decent amount of money. Not crazy venture backed business money but definitely lifestyle business money if not more. And FB owned Instagram seemingly got them to close up shop without going to court. Even more interesting is that MassPlanner wasn't SaaS. It was desktop software. So MassPlanner wasn't even running servers that were accessing any of the social networks. On the other hand, sites like SocialBlade and tools like Scrapebox have been around for years. So who knows? Ultimately, if you're just an individual scraping for research purposes or maybe you run a social media consulting firm and you're doing it for a client, if you don't publicize it like crazy then you're fine. But just from watching things like this over the years I've noticed most services like this eventually get shutdown if they get really popular. Scrapers tend to fare better than bots but if you get on their radar and they don't like what you're doing you're up against some deep pockets.
hobbescotch 9y ago
This is part of the reason I'm not planning on ever providing this as a paid service. Regardless of the ToS, I don't really think it would be right to sell this data in the first place.
- KGIII 9y ago
  For the second time today, I am going to suggest seeking the council of a qualified legal professional. Up above, you admitted you just copied some site's terms of service. Now, I am seeing that you haven't actually checked the various services for their list of rules. You're quite likely to end up in court, should you actually get noticed. Seriously, hire a lawyer. I am not kidding. These sites kinda value their data and have a variety of limits for using the data - even if it is public facing.
  - soared 9y ago
    He'd maybe get a cease and desist.. IANAL but he is not 'quite likely to end up in court' unless he fights against them and refuses to shut down / make changes.

opportune 9y ago

Do the companies have a claim to the actual data if they make it publicly accessible (intentionally)? Curious as to whether there have been any court cases over this. I'm sure you can't republish it anywhere, but if for example I wanted to scrape some basic demographic data off FB and use it as part of an ML model, would there be something wrong with that?

detaro 9y ago
Just because it's publicly accessible doesn't mean anyone who can access it gets usage rights on it, but some metadata might not qualify for protection. There is also the issue of ToS forbidding it, with varying legal consequences – and this site requires you to log in with Twitter/Facebook, so they have accepted a developer agreement with the service, which might forbid what they are doing.
- opportune 9y ago
  There are different forms of usage rights, though. Like I said, I'm positive it would not be a good idea to simply republish all of FB/insta/twitter's data elsewhere, but just as some software licenses allow you to use the code however you want so long as you do not redistribute it, I'm wondering if there are legal/ToS policies that allow limited use of the data (or specifically, what the official policies of these companies are w.r.t this).
MechanicalTwerk 9y ago
INAL but usually the data, or at least some portion of it, is owned by the users and the service's TOS and Privacy Policy will state how the service is allowed to use it. So they have a responsibility to keep their users' data protected to the degree specified in those policies. But really, the data is usually the service's biggest asset when it comes to creating an advertising business which is maybe the biggest reason they want to protect it. But data aside, the company owns the servers you are sending requests to in order to get the data. So that opens another angle for them to litigate. This is where things like robots.txt comes in which I don't think has ever fully played out in court. Yet another angle to go after folks on is the use of trademarks in any marketing copy. It's hard to sell Instagram bots and scrapers if you can't use the word Instagram. I don't even really think a lawyer would have a clear cut answer without going to court but the cease and desist is usually enough to scare people into shutting down. MassPlanner was a pretty widely used piece of software so you'd have to imagine it was making at least a decent amount of money. Not crazy venture backed business money but definitely lifestyle business money if not more. And FB owned Instagram seemingly got them to close up shop without going to court. Even more interesting is that MassPlanner wasn't SaaS. It was desktop software. So MassPlanner wasn't even running servers that were accessing any of the social networks. On the other hand, sites like SocialBlade and tools like Scrapebox have been around for years. So who knows? Ultimately, if you're just an individual scraping for research purposes or maybe you run a social media consulting firm and you're doing it for a client, if you don't publicize it like crazy then you're fine. But just from watching things like this over the years I've noticed most services like this eventually get shutdown if they get really popular. Scrapers tend to fare better than bots but if you get on their radar and they don't like what you're doing you're up against some deep pockets.

hobbescotch 9y ago

This is part of the reason I'm not planning on ever providing this as a paid service. Regardless of the ToS, I don't really think it would be right to sell this data in the first place.

KGIII 9y ago
For the second time today, I am going to suggest seeking the council of a qualified legal professional. Up above, you admitted you just copied some site's terms of service. Now, I am seeing that you haven't actually checked the various services for their list of rules. You're quite likely to end up in court, should you actually get noticed. Seriously, hire a lawyer. I am not kidding. These sites kinda value their data and have a variety of limits for using the data - even if it is public facing.
- soared 9y ago
  He'd maybe get a cease and desist.. IANAL but he is not 'quite likely to end up in court' unless he fights against them and refuses to shut down / make changes.