4 ms·

The effect of heroin is real, and it won't help if you have, say, a bacterial infection. If you have for example a nerve caught in a joint, a placebo may make

by E6300 9y ago

The effect of heroin is real, and it won't help if you have, say, a bacterial infection. If you have for example a nerve caught in a joint, a placebo may make you believe you're getting better and eliminate the pain of a while, same as an analgesic, but the nerve will still be caught in that joint. That's what I mean when I say it doesn't help. It doesn't actually make the ailment go away. Sometimes the ailment will go away on it own while the patient is under the placebo effect, but that's not the same as the placebo actually doing anything. > In fact if placebo didn't work then it would be pointless to use it in clinical trials for new drugs. You do realize that a drug being found to have an effectiveness at treating X equal to placebo is considered a failure, right? It means the drug has no effect on X, positive or negative. That's one of the reasons homeopathy is considered bullshit (the other being that its founding principles are false), that on clinical trials it's been found time and again to be as effective as a placebo.

dnh44 9y ago
Yes that's exactly the point! If a drug is only as effective as placebo then it's a failure. That's exactly why they don't just compare the drug to the control group who doesn't get any medication at all! In a hypothetical but semi-realistic case let's say 300 people are taking part in a trial. 100 will be the control group that gets nothing. Maybe 20 people will get better on their own. Next is the placebo group, who think they are getting some awesome new meds. Out of 100 people maybe 40 will get better on their own. Next is the group that actually gets the medication. Now if only 40 out of 100 get better than they know the medicine is no better than placebo and doesn't actually do anything. Notice that if there wasn't a placebo group people would assume that the drug actually helps people because it performs better than the control group. You seem to be confusing placebo with someone randomly getting better (the 20% of the control group). The whole idea of placebo is that you're more likely to "randomly get better" when you think you're going to get better (the 40% compared to the 20%). The implications of this is that somehow the brain is involved in healing the body.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Sure the brain is involved: folks who feel someone cares about them, will attend to their own health better. Take all the medicine; do the exercises; stay rested and eat right.

by E6300 9y ago

dnh44 9y ago

Yes that's exactly the point! If a drug is only as effective as placebo then it's a failure. That's exactly why they don't just compare the drug to the control group who doesn't get any medication at all! In a hypothetical but semi-realistic case let's say 300 people are taking part in a trial. 100 will be the control group that gets nothing. Maybe 20 people will get better on their own. Next is the placebo group, who think they are getting some awesome new meds. Out of 100 people maybe 40 will get better on their own. Next is the group that actually gets the medication. Now if only 40 out of 100 get better than they know the medicine is no better than placebo and doesn't actually do anything. Notice that if there wasn't a placebo group people would assume that the drug actually helps people because it performs better than the control group. You seem to be confusing placebo with someone randomly getting better (the 20% of the control group). The whole idea of placebo is that you're more likely to "randomly get better" when you think you're going to get better (the 40% compared to the 20%). The implications of this is that somehow the brain is involved in healing the body.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago
Sure the brain is involved: folks who feel someone cares about them, will attend to their own health better. Take all the medicine; do the exercises; stay rested and eat right.