6 ms·

> (single family homes with reasonable space) they make those cities unaffordable, they can't possibly scale, they are more hostile to walking, biking, and tr

> (single family homes with reasonable space) they make those cities unaffordable, they can't possibly scale, they are more hostile to walking, biking, and transit. None of that is actually true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbC5j4pG9w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGbC5j4pG9w and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv6SbFlZMbU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv6SbFlZMbU Apartments are great for those who want them, but there's nothing wrong or anti-urban about family housing. You can easily give everyone (edit: everyone who wants one) their own single-family detached housing (with privacy, and parking), inside a major city, for really cheap. It would still be 100% supportive of walking, biking, and transit, and can scale for at least the next 100 years. I can state this as a simple fact, because it is, it already exists on Earth today. Wealthier Americans just refuse to let that happen in our own cities. We simply don't build urban housing for families (even in instances where zoning rules do allow it) so families literally can't make that choice. Cities force sprawl, and then complain that decisions must be made to service the sprawl they themselves made.

jacobolus 9y ago
“Everyone”? The first video you linked shows that the specific neighborhood in Tokyo is filled with low-rise and mid-rise apartment buildings.
- maxsilver 9y ago
  "Everyone" meaning everyone who wants one. The average family making average wages in Tokyo, can afford a brand new detached home inside central Tokyo. The same is not true in any of the top 50 cities in the US. Even the smaller unpopular cities, even the cities that have slower population growth than Tokyo, or have cheaper land than Tokyo.
  - aninhumer 9y ago
    What exactly do you mean by "central Tokyo" here? I'm fairly sure the average family cannot buy a detached house in Ginza for example.
    - maxsilver 9y ago
      "The 23 special wards that make up the core and most populated portion of Tokyo" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo You should watch the videos linked above, it explains all of this in simple but detailed language.
      - aninhumer 9y ago
        While it's laudable that people can afford detached housing in the extended metro area, I think calling the special wards "central Tokyo" is a bit of a stretch. (Especially given that they reach the border of Tokyo prefecture to the north and east.) But in any case, as far as I can see your vision doesn't even conflict with the urbanists. They want the dense urban cores and excellent public transport that allows Tokyo's suburbs to exist. Where they are hostile to suburbs, it's where they are enforced by zoning and are getting in the way of density in places where it makes sense and making single family dwellings more expensive in the process. Indeed many would argue that the success of cities in Japan can be largely attributed to their laxer zoning laws, which is one of the primary things urbanists argue for.
eregorn 9y ago
How is a nearly 7-1 average housing cost to median income considered cheap? I'm pretty sure that's the ratios these cities that admit there's a problem are dealing with and you're saying this is the ideal. It doesn't help your argument either when the video itself admits pop growth in Japan is so low that housing isn't considered a good investment.
TulliusCicero 9y ago
First off, Japanese SFHs are on incredibly tiny lots compared to how zoning works in most American cities. But the bigger issue with your argument here is that much more of Japanese residential land in major cities is used for multi-family housing than single-family. I'm not saying we should not allow single-family homes to exist. I'm saying zoning currently allocates far too much land exclusively for them. Tokyo is a pretty terrible counter-example for that. It's the same thing with cars. Nothing wrong with driving, American cities just make them hyper-dominant rather than one option among several.

jacobolus 9y ago

“Everyone”? The first video you linked shows that the specific neighborhood in Tokyo is filled with low-rise and mid-rise apartment buildings.

maxsilver 9y ago
"Everyone" meaning everyone who wants one. The average family making average wages in Tokyo, can afford a brand new detached home inside central Tokyo. The same is not true in any of the top 50 cities in the US. Even the smaller unpopular cities, even the cities that have slower population growth than Tokyo, or have cheaper land than Tokyo.
- aninhumer 9y ago
  What exactly do you mean by "central Tokyo" here? I'm fairly sure the average family cannot buy a detached house in Ginza for example.
  - maxsilver 9y ago
    "The 23 special wards that make up the core and most populated portion of Tokyo" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_wards_of_Tokyo You should watch the videos linked above, it explains all of this in simple but detailed language.
    - aninhumer 9y ago
      While it's laudable that people can afford detached housing in the extended metro area, I think calling the special wards "central Tokyo" is a bit of a stretch. (Especially given that they reach the border of Tokyo prefecture to the north and east.) But in any case, as far as I can see your vision doesn't even conflict with the urbanists. They want the dense urban cores and excellent public transport that allows Tokyo's suburbs to exist. Where they are hostile to suburbs, it's where they are enforced by zoning and are getting in the way of density in places where it makes sense and making single family dwellings more expensive in the process. Indeed many would argue that the success of cities in Japan can be largely attributed to their laxer zoning laws, which is one of the primary things urbanists argue for.

eregorn 9y ago

How is a nearly 7-1 average housing cost to median income considered cheap? I'm pretty sure that's the ratios these cities that admit there's a problem are dealing with and you're saying this is the ideal. It doesn't help your argument either when the video itself admits pop growth in Japan is so low that housing isn't considered a good investment.

TulliusCicero 9y ago

First off, Japanese SFHs are on incredibly tiny lots compared to how zoning works in most American cities. But the bigger issue with your argument here is that much more of Japanese residential land in major cities is used for multi-family housing than single-family. I'm not saying we should not allow single-family homes to exist. I'm saying zoning currently allocates far too much land exclusively for them. Tokyo is a pretty terrible counter-example for that. It's the same thing with cars. Nothing wrong with driving, American cities just make them hyper-dominant rather than one option among several.