5 ms·

I also pronounce it without an "u" sound. I'm never sure what to do with the "mn", though. For all I know, it is impossible to pronounce two consonants in that

I also pronounce it without an "u" sound. I'm never sure what to do with the "mn", though. For all I know, it is impossible to pronounce two consonants in that way, you'll have to add a (implicit) vowel. Do people say "nemonic", or "me-nemonic" or "em-nemonic"? If I really try to avoid an implicit vowel, I could say "hmmm-nemonic", but that sounds weird, and there is still a vowel in there. I once heard the suggestion to join the "impossible" consonant to the previous word, so "the mnemonic" would be "them nemonic". It came up with "chtonic" and "chtulu" (the chtonic gods = "theχ tonic gods" / "thek tonic gods"). I like that idea, although it seems highly nonstandard.

yorwba 9y ago
Where is the vowel between m and n in "hmmm-nemonic"? If you put your tongue tip up before you open your mouth (or even while you do it), the airflow is restricted throughout the whole transition. If the consonants in the cluster are unvoiced, it is even easier to avoid an implicit vowel by simply not voicing anything and pronouncing the individual consonants in fast succession, just like "ch" is formed from "t" and "sh".
- captainmuon 9y ago
  What I wrote as `h` functions as a vowel here. Is is by definition impossible to have a consonant without a vowel. When you say "mmm", it is really "ummm" or "emmm". Even if you just humm to make the m, you'll have an initial sound at the beginning. I think of it a bit like fourier analysis. Like you automatically have higher frequency components when you have a rectangular wave form. Turning on the "m" out of nothing looks or sounds like an "e". I think you could make a recording of "mmmm", cut of the beginning or the end, and the transition from/to silence would still constitute a vowel. You can choose to have the vowel before, or after the m. Most often I've heard "m(e)nemonic".
  - yorwba 9y ago
    > Is is by definition impossible to have a consonant without a vowel. I'm not sure what definition of vowel you subscribe to, but I tend to mean "a sound pronounced with an open vocal tract" [1], in which case you can have consonants without vowels. In particular, a simple transition from silence to voice does not constitute a vowel (nor does it sound very much like one, in my opinion). I also don't understand how you could choose to have the vowel before or after the m; under your definition of vowel, it would seem like every "mmm" would have to be "(e)mmm(e)" instead. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel
    - captainmuon 9y ago
      Just what I learned in elementary school (1st grade in the US). Vowels are the five letters of the english alphabet that are special, because the pronunciations of all other letters contain a vowel. That's why the others are called consonants (with-sounders). I know that is highly unscientific, and probably doesn't reflect current linguistics, but it still makes sense to me :-)
      - yorwba 9y ago
        What you learned is not completely wrong, but 1. it only applies to English, 2. aeiou are the five classical vowels of the Latin alphabet, but English has more than five vowels (see the table here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English) 3. although in English every consonant occurs in a syllable together with a vowel (as a with-sounder, if you will), there can be multiple consonants in one syllable. E.g. "claps" is a single syllable with one vowel "a" and four consonants. There is no vowel directly adjacent to "c" or "s". This is also the case for "mnemonic": the syllable "mne" has one vowel and two consonants. (Except in the English pronunciation, where the "m" is dropped.)
sbmassey 9y ago
It's not that hard to glide from the /m/ to the /n/ without an intervening vowel or anything before the /m/, it is just unfamiliar to anglophones. The Russian language has all kinds of bizzare consonant combinations, and they manage to make it work.
grkvlt 9y ago
As I understand it, the initial m is silent, so no 'implicit vowel' is required, the 'mn' is pronounced like 'n', e.g. 'new-mon-ik'. The other word you mention (actually spelled 'chthonic') is pronounced with the initiall 'k' or 'ch' sound, like 'k-thonic'. If you search Google for the words, or look on Wiktionary, there should be a handy audio link with examples.

yorwba 9y ago

Where is the vowel between m and n in "hmmm-nemonic"? If you put your tongue tip up before you open your mouth (or even while you do it), the airflow is restricted throughout the whole transition. If the consonants in the cluster are unvoiced, it is even easier to avoid an implicit vowel by simply not voicing anything and pronouncing the individual consonants in fast succession, just like "ch" is formed from "t" and "sh".

captainmuon 9y ago
What I wrote as `h` functions as a vowel here. Is is by definition impossible to have a consonant without a vowel. When you say "mmm", it is really "ummm" or "emmm". Even if you just humm to make the m, you'll have an initial sound at the beginning. I think of it a bit like fourier analysis. Like you automatically have higher frequency components when you have a rectangular wave form. Turning on the "m" out of nothing looks or sounds like an "e". I think you could make a recording of "mmmm", cut of the beginning or the end, and the transition from/to silence would still constitute a vowel. You can choose to have the vowel before, or after the m. Most often I've heard "m(e)nemonic".
- yorwba 9y ago
  > Is is by definition impossible to have a consonant without a vowel. I'm not sure what definition of vowel you subscribe to, but I tend to mean "a sound pronounced with an open vocal tract" [1], in which case you can have consonants without vowels. In particular, a simple transition from silence to voice does not constitute a vowel (nor does it sound very much like one, in my opinion). I also don't understand how you could choose to have the vowel before or after the m; under your definition of vowel, it would seem like every "mmm" would have to be "(e)mmm(e)" instead. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel
  - captainmuon 9y ago
    Just what I learned in elementary school (1st grade in the US). Vowels are the five letters of the english alphabet that are special, because the pronunciations of all other letters contain a vowel. That's why the others are called consonants (with-sounders). I know that is highly unscientific, and probably doesn't reflect current linguistics, but it still makes sense to me :-)
    - yorwba 9y ago
      What you learned is not completely wrong, but 1. it only applies to English, 2. aeiou are the five classical vowels of the Latin alphabet, but English has more than five vowels (see the table here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English) 3. although in English every consonant occurs in a syllable together with a vowel (as a with-sounder, if you will), there can be multiple consonants in one syllable. E.g. "claps" is a single syllable with one vowel "a" and four consonants. There is no vowel directly adjacent to "c" or "s". This is also the case for "mnemonic": the syllable "mne" has one vowel and two consonants. (Except in the English pronunciation, where the "m" is dropped.)

sbmassey 9y ago

It's not that hard to glide from the /m/ to the /n/ without an intervening vowel or anything before the /m/, it is just unfamiliar to anglophones. The Russian language has all kinds of bizzare consonant combinations, and they manage to make it work.

grkvlt 9y ago

As I understand it, the initial m is silent, so no 'implicit vowel' is required, the 'mn' is pronounced like 'n', e.g. 'new-mon-ik'. The other word you mention (actually spelled 'chthonic') is pronounced with the initiall 'k' or 'ch' sound, like 'k-thonic'. If you search Google for the words, or look on Wiktionary, there should be a handy audio link with examples.