4 ms·

> Those cheap android phones and lower-end Windows laptops are so cheap because they are subsidized from the revenue they bring in via data collection and selli

by pawadu 9y ago

> Those cheap android phones and lower-end Windows laptops are so cheap because they are subsidized from the revenue they bring in via data collection and selling. Not true. Lets see what those "cheap" devices provide in terms of privacy: 1. During installation Windows 10 explicitly asks you what stuff you want to enable and how those affect your privacy 2. Microsoft Edge supports ad blockers and anti-trackers on desktop, mobile version is coming (already here in fast-ring?) 3. Google allows you to turn off all kind of analytics. They email you once a year and ask you to check your security and privacy settings. 4. Chrome allows you to install ad-blockers from Googles own extension store 5. On Android you also have the choice of installing Mozilla firefox which supports desktop-grade adblocker and anti-tracker extensions. Android being android you can make it the default OS browser and disable or remove Chrome completely. 6. On Android you can also install Mozilla Focus which is a privacy-oriented browser You are basically spreading FUD.

PhantomGremlin 9y ago
1. Windows 10 explicitly asks you what stuff you want to enable and how those affect your privacy Where does Windows explicitly ask for permission to spy on your every keystroke and send massive quantities of analytics data back to the mothership? And, since they're explicitly asking, how can I explicitly turn all that spyware off? Oh, that's right, I can't. Because your assertion is flat out wrong, if not an actual deliberate prevarication. How is this even being discussed any more? Haven't we seen enough articles about Microsoft's impossible to disable spyware? Windows 10 is spyware first, and an operating system second.
- pawadu 9y ago
  Are you claiming Windows 10 diagnostics is actually spyware and sends every keystroke and other data to Microsoft?
  - PhantomGremlin 9y ago
    Thankfully the only Windows I currently run is XP in a VM isolated from the Internet. So I have no personal experience. But the articles are all over the Internet. Here's one I found quickly: https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/5/15188636/microsoft-windows-10-data-collection-documents-privacy-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/5/15188636/microsoft-windows... Yes, there's plenty of "diagnostic" information sent to Microsoft. You might be willing to trust Microsoft with it, but I sure don't. Just like they claim the keylogger isn't really that, it's perfectly harmless. Here's an early quote from Microsoft: “When you interact with your Windows device by speaking, writing (handwriting), or typing, Microsoft collects speech, inking, and typing information—including information about your Calendar and People (also known as contacts)…” http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/windows/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-yes-it-still-has-one.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/windows/how-to-turn-o... Is that still current? I don't know, why would I trust them to have removed it? Microsoft's game is to wear people down. Not everything can be turned off; many things that can be turned off are turned back on by system updates. After a while most people give up and live with the spyware.
    - pawadu 9y ago
      > Yes, there's plenty of "diagnostic" information sent to Microsoft. You might be willing to trust Microsoft with it, but I sure don't. I have not seen any actual analysis of the sent data. I would prefer it didn't send anything but until proven otherwise I will assume it is just app diagnostics. Remember they are in the business of selling operating systems. EU would happily shut them down if they are caught doing any shenanigans. > Thankfully the only Windows I currently run is XP in a VM isolated from the Internet I suspect whatever OS you are using as host also talks to the mothership, it just doesn't say it in a privacy page.
      - PhantomGremlin 9y ago
        I suspect whatever OS you are using as host also talks to the mothership, it just doesn't say it in a privacy page. MacOS has telemetry, but it seems to be easily disabled. Is it really disabled? Nobody but Apple knows. It's safe to say that both Windows and MacOS are chatty. But, for whatever reason, I trust Apple more. My firewall runs OpenBSD. That's a breath of fresh air. I can run ps and understand exactly what processes are running and why. Definitely no inexplicable TCP connections.

by pawadu 9y ago

PhantomGremlin 9y ago

1. Windows 10 explicitly asks you what stuff you want to enable and how those affect your privacy Where does Windows explicitly ask for permission to spy on your every keystroke and send massive quantities of analytics data back to the mothership? And, since they're explicitly asking, how can I explicitly turn all that spyware off? Oh, that's right, I can't. Because your assertion is flat out wrong, if not an actual deliberate prevarication. How is this even being discussed any more? Haven't we seen enough articles about Microsoft's impossible to disable spyware? Windows 10 is spyware first, and an operating system second.

pawadu 9y ago
Are you claiming Windows 10 diagnostics is actually spyware and sends every keystroke and other data to Microsoft?
- PhantomGremlin 9y ago
  Thankfully the only Windows I currently run is XP in a VM isolated from the Internet. So I have no personal experience. But the articles are all over the Internet. Here's one I found quickly: https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/5/15188636/microsoft-windows-10-data-collection-documents-privacy-concerns https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/5/15188636/microsoft-windows... Yes, there's plenty of "diagnostic" information sent to Microsoft. You might be willing to trust Microsoft with it, but I sure don't. Just like they claim the keylogger isn't really that, it's perfectly harmless. Here's an early quote from Microsoft: “When you interact with your Windows device by speaking, writing (handwriting), or typing, Microsoft collects speech, inking, and typing information—including information about your Calendar and People (also known as contacts)…” http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/windows/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-yes-it-still-has-one.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/windows/how-to-turn-o... Is that still current? I don't know, why would I trust them to have removed it? Microsoft's game is to wear people down. Not everything can be turned off; many things that can be turned off are turned back on by system updates. After a while most people give up and live with the spyware.
  - pawadu 9y ago
    > Yes, there's plenty of "diagnostic" information sent to Microsoft. You might be willing to trust Microsoft with it, but I sure don't. I have not seen any actual analysis of the sent data. I would prefer it didn't send anything but until proven otherwise I will assume it is just app diagnostics. Remember they are in the business of selling operating systems. EU would happily shut them down if they are caught doing any shenanigans. > Thankfully the only Windows I currently run is XP in a VM isolated from the Internet I suspect whatever OS you are using as host also talks to the mothership, it just doesn't say it in a privacy page.
    - PhantomGremlin 9y ago
      I suspect whatever OS you are using as host also talks to the mothership, it just doesn't say it in a privacy page. MacOS has telemetry, but it seems to be easily disabled. Is it really disabled? Nobody but Apple knows. It's safe to say that both Windows and MacOS are chatty. But, for whatever reason, I trust Apple more. My firewall runs OpenBSD. That's a breath of fresh air. I can run ps and understand exactly what processes are running and why. Definitely no inexplicable TCP connections.