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And if you go hide a few million bucks in cash in the middle of a desert, they can't take it either. The hard part has always been getting it out and not getti

And if you go hide a few million bucks in cash in the middle of a desert, they can't take it either. The hard part has always been getting it out and not getting caught. Nothing is truly yours.

ransom1538 9y ago
You can trade for goods or services with your coins. You cannot trade for anything with cash dug in the desert. Cash is confiscated daily by authorities.
- agrajag 9y ago
  If I buy a house or a car with cryptocurrency that can be confiscated. If I live a lavish lifestyle while under a judgement I'm not paying, then the court can imprison me indefinitely under contempt of court. Courts have centuries of case law for how to deal with people that hide assets from judgements. They're not going to care whether your assets are in a shell company or a cryptocurrency.
  - piaste 9y ago
    You are correct, when it comes to protecting your assets from (minimally competent) authorities, cryptocurrencies aren't much better than a hole in the ground full of cash. Where they are much better than a hole in the ground is when it comes to moving your assets to a different jurisdiction. As long as you can physically get yourself from Somecountry to Othercountry, all your e-cash will be accessible in Othercountry regardless of what Somecountry may have to say about it. And even if Somecountry imprisons you, you can still hand over your e-cash to someone else with a single message. I can't think of any asset that offers that particular advantage.
    - zimzam 9y ago
      Sure, but extradition treaties make the list of viable country hops limited. You also can only pull this trick once: after you are a known flight risk the next country to come after you will be careful to make sure your detainment comes as a surprise. Finally, as much fun as it can be to game out, for how many people in the world is this use case actually applicable?
      - piaste 9y ago
        You're thinking of a known criminal holding ill-gotten funds, whom his new country would like to prosecute as much as the old one. Think instead of an ordinary person fleeing a disintegrating economy and/or an oppressive regime, who had stashed away some e-cash for such an eventuality.
    - notahacker 9y ago
      The offshore banking industry has been helping people hide, launder and transfer funds for centuries. It's not infallible, but neither is the process of converting your cryto assets into something readily accepted in Othercountry.
RexetBlell 9y ago
That could work, but cryptocurrencies are more convenient. You could transfer your coins anywhere in the world much easier. For example, you could donate your coins Wikileaks undetected, but it's much harder to do that with cash buried in the desert. It's also possible that the government may declare some bills invalid (what happened in India with larger bills). Also, government could inflate away your wealth by printing more currency.
- agrajag 9y ago
  While cryptocurrencies have been great (so far) for speculation, give how quickly their worth changes they make a pretty poor store of wealth. I'd prefer my cash to be worth in 1 year roughly the same as it's worth today.
  - imaginenore 9y ago
    Oh, those poor bitcoin/ethereum holders, they only gained a few hundred/thousand percent in the last couple of years.
    - Avshalom 9y ago
      And if all you ever do is hold on to them your high score looks great, the problem is that if rent comes due in USD in the middle of a down swing. What was 1M usd is now 100K usd and rent is now 1-2% of your bitcoin instead of .1-2%, if you get unlucky a few times that can start eating your holdings real quick. Medium to long term growth only matters in assets you won't need to spend in the short term.
- aub3bhat 9y ago
  It's also possible that the government may declare some bills invalid (what happened in India with larger bills). Also, government could inflate away your wealth by printing more currency. At end of the day governments control both the network via (ISPs & Networking equipment) and processors (Try producing an 8080 in your backyard.). You make mistake of assuming that countries won't put up a global firewall that makes bitcoin/ether network impossible to operate. If China can filter traffic at internet scale, crippling Bitcoin network even if say EU/US/China are on board is trivial. Currencies are backed by the only thing that matters, its will/trust of the people. And no amount of crypto changes that. Unless of course you have some magical way of baking silicon on your own into processors and other chips used in computers and networking equipment in your backyard.
FooHentai 9y ago
Not really a good analogy. On the Internet, everything is at distance Zero. Plus as more avenues for directly using bitcoins opens up, the 'getting it out' problem becomes a non-issue. Plus, mixers!
nathan_f77 9y ago
I just realized Breaking Bad might have ended very differently if it was set in the present day.
kahnpro 9y ago
This is ultimately the problem. People forget that, for that money to have any value, you eventually have to interact with the rest of human society. As another commenter said, we've been dealing with this for centuries--black markets, cartels, smugglers, etc. Everything old is new again.

And if you go hide a few million bucks in cash in the middle of a desert, they can't take it either. The hard part has always been getting it out and not getting caught. Nothing is truly yours.

ransom1538 9y ago

You can trade for goods or services with your coins. You cannot trade for anything with cash dug in the desert. Cash is confiscated daily by authorities.

agrajag 9y ago
If I buy a house or a car with cryptocurrency that can be confiscated. If I live a lavish lifestyle while under a judgement I'm not paying, then the court can imprison me indefinitely under contempt of court. Courts have centuries of case law for how to deal with people that hide assets from judgements. They're not going to care whether your assets are in a shell company or a cryptocurrency.
- piaste 9y ago
  You are correct, when it comes to protecting your assets from (minimally competent) authorities, cryptocurrencies aren't much better than a hole in the ground full of cash. Where they are much better than a hole in the ground is when it comes to moving your assets to a different jurisdiction. As long as you can physically get yourself from Somecountry to Othercountry, all your e-cash will be accessible in Othercountry regardless of what Somecountry may have to say about it. And even if Somecountry imprisons you, you can still hand over your e-cash to someone else with a single message. I can't think of any asset that offers that particular advantage.
  - zimzam 9y ago
    Sure, but extradition treaties make the list of viable country hops limited. You also can only pull this trick once: after you are a known flight risk the next country to come after you will be careful to make sure your detainment comes as a surprise. Finally, as much fun as it can be to game out, for how many people in the world is this use case actually applicable?
    - piaste 9y ago
      You're thinking of a known criminal holding ill-gotten funds, whom his new country would like to prosecute as much as the old one. Think instead of an ordinary person fleeing a disintegrating economy and/or an oppressive regime, who had stashed away some e-cash for such an eventuality.
  - notahacker 9y ago
    The offshore banking industry has been helping people hide, launder and transfer funds for centuries. It's not infallible, but neither is the process of converting your cryto assets into something readily accepted in Othercountry.

RexetBlell 9y ago

That could work, but cryptocurrencies are more convenient. You could transfer your coins anywhere in the world much easier. For example, you could donate your coins Wikileaks undetected, but it's much harder to do that with cash buried in the desert. It's also possible that the government may declare some bills invalid (what happened in India with larger bills). Also, government could inflate away your wealth by printing more currency.

agrajag 9y ago
While cryptocurrencies have been great (so far) for speculation, give how quickly their worth changes they make a pretty poor store of wealth. I'd prefer my cash to be worth in 1 year roughly the same as it's worth today.
- imaginenore 9y ago
  Oh, those poor bitcoin/ethereum holders, they only gained a few hundred/thousand percent in the last couple of years.
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    And if all you ever do is hold on to them your high score looks great, the problem is that if rent comes due in USD in the middle of a down swing. What was 1M usd is now 100K usd and rent is now 1-2% of your bitcoin instead of .1-2%, if you get unlucky a few times that can start eating your holdings real quick. Medium to long term growth only matters in assets you won't need to spend in the short term.
aub3bhat 9y ago
It's also possible that the government may declare some bills invalid (what happened in India with larger bills). Also, government could inflate away your wealth by printing more currency. At end of the day governments control both the network via (ISPs & Networking equipment) and processors (Try producing an 8080 in your backyard.). You make mistake of assuming that countries won't put up a global firewall that makes bitcoin/ether network impossible to operate. If China can filter traffic at internet scale, crippling Bitcoin network even if say EU/US/China are on board is trivial. Currencies are backed by the only thing that matters, its will/trust of the people. And no amount of crypto changes that. Unless of course you have some magical way of baking silicon on your own into processors and other chips used in computers and networking equipment in your backyard.

FooHentai 9y ago

Not really a good analogy. On the Internet, everything is at distance Zero. Plus as more avenues for directly using bitcoins opens up, the 'getting it out' problem becomes a non-issue. Plus, mixers!

nathan_f77 9y ago

I just realized Breaking Bad might have ended very differently if it was set in the present day.

kahnpro 9y ago

This is ultimately the problem. People forget that, for that money to have any value, you eventually have to interact with the rest of human society. As another commenter said, we've been dealing with this for centuries--black markets, cartels, smugglers, etc. Everything old is new again.