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1. If H1Bs are shown to have depressed wages of computer programmers etc., why would it not be logical to expect illegals to depress wages? If there were 12 mi

1. If H1Bs are shown to have depressed wages of computer programmers etc., why would it not be logical to expect illegals to depress wages? If there were 12 million fewer people in the USA (the laughably low "official" number of illegals in the country), would demand for housing be less? Demand for doctors and related health care? Even former Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton, Robert Reich, in TV interviews, admitted that "Undoubtedly access to lower-wage foreign workers has a depressing effect [on wages]". 2. Quoting 1 article from a progressive magazine (which incidentally, endorsed Hillary Clinton) to "prove" the voting behavior of over 100 million people is kind of ridiculous.

KirinDave 9y ago
1. How would you separate that effect from the well-documented and systemic collusion to depress.wages and reduce employee turnover that already affects our industry? As for the count, do you have some reasources that aren't secretly written by daily stormer folks?
- patrickg_zill 9y ago
  re 1: so only the computer-related companies are smart enough to understand and then take advantage of such effects? The count has remained unchanged since the late 1990s/early 2000s. Yet there are many who have crossed over the southern border each year since then. Therefore ...
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    Let's split this by paragraph. Sorry to fisk your post so much. > re 1: so only the computer-related companies are smart enough to understand and then take advantage of such effects? I think maybe you're misunderstanding me. Apple, Google, Oracle, and others have engaged in a wage fixing cartel that was exposed a few years ago. A big long summary was laid out here: https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/ https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage... > The count has remained unchanged since the late 1990s/early 2000s. Yet there are many who have crossed over the southern border each year since then. Therefore ... I'm not sure what you're referring to here or if you're suggesting I disagree with the amount of "illegal" immigration being on an uptick. I think it is, but data I've seen suggests an impression that it's a function of the country's total population, not a trend that rises out-of-proportion. Further, the rules for immigration (and the various visa quotas) have not fixed ("remained unchanged") since 1990. It's eye-rolling, incandescently hot cow pies ripped right off of a poorly sourced Breitbart article comment section to suggest they are. Our economy has grown substantially as a result of business owners exploiting labor that has no legal recourse for mistreatment, cannot easily push back on unlivable wages, and does not receive health insurance. And it's outrageous.
    - patrickg_zill 9y ago
      I think, you don't know anything about the H2A labor program, which is for ag workers. It's as much a wage fixing cartel as anything else. News article that can server as a quick backgrounder: http://www.southeastfarmpress.com/tobacco/north-carolina-growers-facing-labor-shortages http://www.southeastfarmpress.com/tobacco/north-carolina-gro... Not really sure how to respond to the rest of your comment. I am stating that I do not believe the "there are 12 million illegals in the USA" statistic, because it has been repeated for about 15 years at this point, with no change. Yet areas that did not have illegals 15 years ago, now do; thus it seems the number of illegals has increased.

KirinDave 9y ago

1. How would you separate that effect from the well-documented and systemic collusion to depress.wages and reduce employee turnover that already affects our industry? As for the count, do you have some reasources that aren't secretly written by daily stormer folks?

patrickg_zill 9y ago
re 1: so only the computer-related companies are smart enough to understand and then take advantage of such effects? The count has remained unchanged since the late 1990s/early 2000s. Yet there are many who have crossed over the southern border each year since then. Therefore ...
- KirinDave 9y ago
  Let's split this by paragraph. Sorry to fisk your post so much. > re 1: so only the computer-related companies are smart enough to understand and then take advantage of such effects? I think maybe you're misunderstanding me. Apple, Google, Oracle, and others have engaged in a wage fixing cartel that was exposed a few years ago. A big long summary was laid out here: https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/ https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage... > The count has remained unchanged since the late 1990s/early 2000s. Yet there are many who have crossed over the southern border each year since then. Therefore ... I'm not sure what you're referring to here or if you're suggesting I disagree with the amount of "illegal" immigration being on an uptick. I think it is, but data I've seen suggests an impression that it's a function of the country's total population, not a trend that rises out-of-proportion. Further, the rules for immigration (and the various visa quotas) have not fixed ("remained unchanged") since 1990. It's eye-rolling, incandescently hot cow pies ripped right off of a poorly sourced Breitbart article comment section to suggest they are. Our economy has grown substantially as a result of business owners exploiting labor that has no legal recourse for mistreatment, cannot easily push back on unlivable wages, and does not receive health insurance. And it's outrageous.
  - patrickg_zill 9y ago
    I think, you don't know anything about the H2A labor program, which is for ag workers. It's as much a wage fixing cartel as anything else. News article that can server as a quick backgrounder: http://www.southeastfarmpress.com/tobacco/north-carolina-growers-facing-labor-shortages http://www.southeastfarmpress.com/tobacco/north-carolina-gro... Not really sure how to respond to the rest of your comment. I am stating that I do not believe the "there are 12 million illegals in the USA" statistic, because it has been repeated for about 15 years at this point, with no change. Yet areas that did not have illegals 15 years ago, now do; thus it seems the number of illegals has increased.