5 ms·

For me it's not so much the day to day interactions, which are largely apolitical[1], but the culture we consume. For example the latest E3 showcases had quite

For me it's not so much the day to day interactions, which are largely apolitical[1], but the culture we consume. For example the latest E3 showcases had quite an emphasis on "diversity". On most days there will be some story about wage gap, harassment or other sexual missteps on the HN front page and various online newspapers. Now that's the daily surface stuff. This is not bad in itself most of the time. I do not deny that some of those social issues are real. But occasionally they go into the other extreme where they start to seem threatening or grossly stereotyping. And then there is that background noise with shitstorms trying to get people fired over things they said (remember the nasa T-shirt guy? or brendan eich?), products boycotted over guilt by association and so on. But they make you ask yourself "could this happen to me?". Say the wrong thing and get fired because someone is OFFENDED about a joke or affiliating with the wrong people? I have also seen github projects that I use suffer just because someone didn't like some language. This concerns me because when people push their preferences on the entire platform instead of subcommunities it becomes a cultural monoculture instead of a more compartmentalized system. [1] The only exception I recall is the discussion about which gender inputs we should support in software forms where some suggested we should support the whole facebook madness.

che_shirecat 9y ago
did we watch the same E3? When did an emphasis on diversity become an "extreme left" viewpoint? Why are you feeling threatened by efforts to undo some of the marginalization of URM in popular media? I don't understand why video game enthusiasts like yourself feel like they're being threatened by more women and minorities in your games - there's still plenty of white male characters and it's not a attack on your identity but more of a fairer redistribution of representation. believe it or not, it's not just nerdy white males who play video games nowadays.
- jakelazaroff 9y ago
  +1 to this and not sure why parent is being down voted. It's mindboggling to me that diversity of fictional characters in made up works of art is politicized. It's not affirmative action or discrimination or anything – it's literally just people choosing to create characters that are not white men. And for some reason that's controversial.
- ThrowawayR2 9y ago
  > it's not just nerdy white males who play video games nowadays Not to defend them or anything but the irony is that your indignant reaction illustrates precisely why your viewpoint is so unwelcome to gamers. Having observed the games industry over many years, the gaming public really does want their comic book-like power fantasies and unrealistic heroes and heroines. The rather unsubtle ways that developers tend to shoehorn diversity into games or self-censor in the name of diversity[0], often at the behest of people like you, damages their immersion in the game regardless of whether they are morally right to feel that way or not. And then people come along and lambaste them for feeling that way, as above. That's not going to win any friends. One cannot cram broccoli into a filet mignon and persuade people that it's just as good nor can one attempt to dictate what people should think by slipping a message into their entertainment, from their viewpoint, and not expect ferocious backlash. [0] To avoid being pilloried, I will say this very explicitly: the point is not that diversity is bad. (Perish the thought.) The point is that its representation in media is often done very badly.
  - che_shirecat 9y ago
    That's some hardcore mental gymnastics. > gaming public really does want their unrealistic heroes and heroines > diversity damages immersion So which is it? You don't like shoehorned diversity because it's unrealistic, but you're fine with unrealistic heroes? When have "gamers" ever raised a fuss about the immersiveness of white characters in exotic countries? And of course, games are "fictional settings in a fictional story" whenever it suits the narrative, but somehow a black assassin in the new Dishonored "damages immersion in the game." It's just interesting to see the obvious bias when the same people who comment "who cares," "it's just a fantasy story," when tilda swinton plays the Ancient One or emma stone plays Hawaiian-Chinese character but turn around and cry "muh immersion" whenever any character in a video game coincidentally isn't white. Diversity isn't some morality piece that you shove in a game to fit some "SJW agenda" (and please, 99% of video games made are not filet mignons by any stretch of the imagination), it's a reflection of a multicultural reality that has been warped for decades - the kneejerk reaction that some "gamers" have to any counterbalancing is honestly just thinly veiled racism.
digi_owl 9y ago
> I have also seen github projects that I use suffer just because someone didn't like some language. Like a shit storm being kicked up over the use of master-slave terminology in code or hardware.

che_shirecat 9y ago

did we watch the same E3? When did an emphasis on diversity become an "extreme left" viewpoint? Why are you feeling threatened by efforts to undo some of the marginalization of URM in popular media? I don't understand why video game enthusiasts like yourself feel like they're being threatened by more women and minorities in your games - there's still plenty of white male characters and it's not a attack on your identity but more of a fairer redistribution of representation. believe it or not, it's not just nerdy white males who play video games nowadays.

jakelazaroff 9y ago
+1 to this and not sure why parent is being down voted. It's mindboggling to me that diversity of fictional characters in made up works of art is politicized. It's not affirmative action or discrimination or anything – it's literally just people choosing to create characters that are not white men. And for some reason that's controversial.
ThrowawayR2 9y ago
> it's not just nerdy white males who play video games nowadays Not to defend them or anything but the irony is that your indignant reaction illustrates precisely why your viewpoint is so unwelcome to gamers. Having observed the games industry over many years, the gaming public really does want their comic book-like power fantasies and unrealistic heroes and heroines. The rather unsubtle ways that developers tend to shoehorn diversity into games or self-censor in the name of diversity[0], often at the behest of people like you, damages their immersion in the game regardless of whether they are morally right to feel that way or not. And then people come along and lambaste them for feeling that way, as above. That's not going to win any friends. One cannot cram broccoli into a filet mignon and persuade people that it's just as good nor can one attempt to dictate what people should think by slipping a message into their entertainment, from their viewpoint, and not expect ferocious backlash. [0] To avoid being pilloried, I will say this very explicitly: the point is not that diversity is bad. (Perish the thought.) The point is that its representation in media is often done very badly.
- che_shirecat 9y ago
  That's some hardcore mental gymnastics. > gaming public really does want their unrealistic heroes and heroines > diversity damages immersion So which is it? You don't like shoehorned diversity because it's unrealistic, but you're fine with unrealistic heroes? When have "gamers" ever raised a fuss about the immersiveness of white characters in exotic countries? And of course, games are "fictional settings in a fictional story" whenever it suits the narrative, but somehow a black assassin in the new Dishonored "damages immersion in the game." It's just interesting to see the obvious bias when the same people who comment "who cares," "it's just a fantasy story," when tilda swinton plays the Ancient One or emma stone plays Hawaiian-Chinese character but turn around and cry "muh immersion" whenever any character in a video game coincidentally isn't white. Diversity isn't some morality piece that you shove in a game to fit some "SJW agenda" (and please, 99% of video games made are not filet mignons by any stretch of the imagination), it's a reflection of a multicultural reality that has been warped for decades - the kneejerk reaction that some "gamers" have to any counterbalancing is honestly just thinly veiled racism.

digi_owl 9y ago

> I have also seen github projects that I use suffer just because someone didn't like some language. Like a shit storm being kicked up over the use of master-slave terminology in code or hardware.