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No it is not bullshit, not for back problems. I hurt my back and was suffering for 2 years. I went to a physiotherapist and they made me do stretches and other

No it is not bullshit, not for back problems. I hurt my back and was suffering for 2 years. I went to a physiotherapist and they made me do stretches and other exercises. I took Advil and aleve and both eventually stopped working. It was debilitating and I desperation I went to a chiropractor. I am a huge skeptic and thought chiropractors were scams too but I was desperate. Within 6 weeks the pain disappeared permanently. This was over 10 years ago. Occsssionally i will tweak my back from carrying my kids on my back and I will go for s few sessions and I feel great afterwards. It's not bullshit, at least for back problems. Some chiros say it cures colds etc which is bullshit. You just need to find a chiro that doesn't deal with that stuff.

obstinate 9y ago
You know that thing about anecdotes. There are a lot of explanations for your situation getting better concurrently with chiro, but not because of chiro. For example, regression to the mean, placebo effect, etc. That said, I had been under the impression that chiro is about as effective for lower back pain as evidence-based physical therapy. But that doesn't mean it is effective. It could equally well mean that we don't know of many good treatments for lower back pain, and thus that physical therapy is only good as a placebo (chiropractic).
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  When you hurt your back then come back and respond. There's nothing worse than an armchair expert googling Wikipedia for their "knowledge".
  - obstinate 9y ago
    Even if I did, it would still be an anecdote. It would prove nothing either way. For that we have to look to data.
    - pfarnsworth 9y ago
      ya I take this back
      - obstinate 9y ago
        > You only need anecdotes to prove that it's not bullshit. Oh dear. No. That's not true at all. Suppose I have back pain. Then I eat some dirt. Then I feel better. Then I start claiming that dirt ingestion cures back pain. Someone would be well within their rights to call that bullshit, despite my anecdote. Even if I could find a dozen people who had the same experience, it would still be bullshit.
        pjkundert 9y ago
        Claim was made. Falsifying evidence was presented. QED.
  - yomly 9y ago
    Lots of science-only hecklers here. Seems to me to be a bit arrogant to think science holds all the answers and that holistic treatments are devoid of value? Should we ideally strive for scientific rigour in everything we do? Yes. Does quantum mechanics prevent us from predicing anything to arbitrary precision? Yes. Are we currently unable to model any three body interaction analytically? Yes. Right at the atomic level, our science is built on top of approximations and concessions to rigour. The second you get to anything remotely murky like biological systems, it all gets a bit hand wavey anyway. This is not to discount the scientific method or years of evidence based research, but if chiropractors and Chinese medicine, and even homeopathy can have an effect on people then who are we to tell them they're wrong? Even if it is just a placebo, until we can in precise terms explain the pathways of the placebo effect, then various healing methods in their various cultural contexts still have their place in the world imho, provided they are not known to be causing harm.
  - na85 9y ago
    Studies show that back pain resolves on its own in 95% of cases.
Geimfari 9y ago
There only exists two proven methods for stopping back pain: Physical exercise and rest. Many things tend to go away by themselves (regression to the mean), back pain appears to be one of them and we haven't found better ways to treat it. Chiropractors often make one feel good for a few days but the effect does not last.
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  I love how everyone thinks they are an expert. I went to physiotherapy for over a year. I took medications for longer. Neither worked. I took a short course of chiro and the pain permanently went away.
  - cup 9y ago
    Don't know why people are downvoting the above comment. Yes It's anecdotal, yes it contradicts the articles argument but It's still an interesting personal account.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    That's the problem with anecdata: Whenever I had muscle or joint pain, physiotherapy and massages helped massively in easing them. Who of us is right now?
  - simonbarker87 9y ago
    No, you went to a bad physiotherapist. Most likely you should have gone to a Physio that actually gets stuck in and manipulates your facet joints and vertebrae to help get the muscles out of spasm and get the joints comfortable moving again. The reason people get relief from chiropractors is manipulating joints is shown to help free up joints and take muscles out of spasm. Physiotherapists practice evidence based medicine, chiros try stuff and get lucky, it happens that there is an overlap in the Venn diagram of those two fields.
    - ovatsug25 9y ago
      Physiotherapists are like programmers—there are good ones and there are bad ones. I've met better chiropractors than physiotherapists because they are actually passionate about solving the problem of pain. Because of this interest, the chiropractors become incredibly interested in the only real, long-term solution to back pain short of a broken bone: consistent, smart, exercise specific to the areas in which you experience pain along with a whole body prime. Their practice is the basis for spinal manipulation and a quick massage. The only real solution for you as a patient get off your back and exercise and find the smart people regardless of what it is they are trained in. Smartness beats education anyway.
senectus1 9y ago
oh dude.. seriously? Chiro's entire "methodology" is based on something called "subluxation". Go and ask your local Chiro what it is, and get them to show you what it is. You'll be waiting a while. its complete bullshit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebral_subluxation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebral_subluxation There is No. Such. Thing. They're dangerous pseudo science pushers, with no evidence to back up their core basis to operate. Go to a physio therapist. Their medicinal practices are based on good, solid scientific evidence based medicine. lastly.. here is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing you'll ever see, a Chiro doing an "adjustment" on a snapping turtle... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=693MsUkQzsA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=693MsUkQzsA
dnh44 9y ago
I had a problem with my shoulder, for which doctors recommended surgery. Decided to try a chiropractor and the problem went away permanently after a few sessions.
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  According to hacker news, unfortunately you are misinformed anti-science idiot, and your anecdote doesn't count. Prepare to be downvoted by armchair experts.

obstinate 9y ago

You know that thing about anecdotes. There are a lot of explanations for your situation getting better concurrently with chiro, but not because of chiro. For example, regression to the mean, placebo effect, etc. That said, I had been under the impression that chiro is about as effective for lower back pain as evidence-based physical therapy. But that doesn't mean it is effective. It could equally well mean that we don't know of many good treatments for lower back pain, and thus that physical therapy is only good as a placebo (chiropractic).

pfarnsworth 9y ago
When you hurt your back then come back and respond. There's nothing worse than an armchair expert googling Wikipedia for their "knowledge".
- obstinate 9y ago
  Even if I did, it would still be an anecdote. It would prove nothing either way. For that we have to look to data.
  - pfarnsworth 9y ago
    ya I take this back
    - obstinate 9y ago
      > You only need anecdotes to prove that it's not bullshit. Oh dear. No. That's not true at all. Suppose I have back pain. Then I eat some dirt. Then I feel better. Then I start claiming that dirt ingestion cures back pain. Someone would be well within their rights to call that bullshit, despite my anecdote. Even if I could find a dozen people who had the same experience, it would still be bullshit.
      - pjkundert 9y ago
        Claim was made. Falsifying evidence was presented. QED.
- yomly 9y ago
  Lots of science-only hecklers here. Seems to me to be a bit arrogant to think science holds all the answers and that holistic treatments are devoid of value? Should we ideally strive for scientific rigour in everything we do? Yes. Does quantum mechanics prevent us from predicing anything to arbitrary precision? Yes. Are we currently unable to model any three body interaction analytically? Yes. Right at the atomic level, our science is built on top of approximations and concessions to rigour. The second you get to anything remotely murky like biological systems, it all gets a bit hand wavey anyway. This is not to discount the scientific method or years of evidence based research, but if chiropractors and Chinese medicine, and even homeopathy can have an effect on people then who are we to tell them they're wrong? Even if it is just a placebo, until we can in precise terms explain the pathways of the placebo effect, then various healing methods in their various cultural contexts still have their place in the world imho, provided they are not known to be causing harm.
- na85 9y ago
  Studies show that back pain resolves on its own in 95% of cases.

Geimfari 9y ago

There only exists two proven methods for stopping back pain: Physical exercise and rest. Many things tend to go away by themselves (regression to the mean), back pain appears to be one of them and we haven't found better ways to treat it. Chiropractors often make one feel good for a few days but the effect does not last.

pfarnsworth 9y ago
I love how everyone thinks they are an expert. I went to physiotherapy for over a year. I took medications for longer. Neither worked. I took a short course of chiro and the pain permanently went away.
- cup 9y ago
  Don't know why people are downvoting the above comment. Yes It's anecdotal, yes it contradicts the articles argument but It's still an interesting personal account.
- majewsky 9y ago
  That's the problem with anecdata: Whenever I had muscle or joint pain, physiotherapy and massages helped massively in easing them. Who of us is right now?
- simonbarker87 9y ago
  No, you went to a bad physiotherapist. Most likely you should have gone to a Physio that actually gets stuck in and manipulates your facet joints and vertebrae to help get the muscles out of spasm and get the joints comfortable moving again. The reason people get relief from chiropractors is manipulating joints is shown to help free up joints and take muscles out of spasm. Physiotherapists practice evidence based medicine, chiros try stuff and get lucky, it happens that there is an overlap in the Venn diagram of those two fields.
  - ovatsug25 9y ago
    Physiotherapists are like programmers—there are good ones and there are bad ones. I've met better chiropractors than physiotherapists because they are actually passionate about solving the problem of pain. Because of this interest, the chiropractors become incredibly interested in the only real, long-term solution to back pain short of a broken bone: consistent, smart, exercise specific to the areas in which you experience pain along with a whole body prime. Their practice is the basis for spinal manipulation and a quick massage. The only real solution for you as a patient get off your back and exercise and find the smart people regardless of what it is they are trained in. Smartness beats education anyway.

senectus1 9y ago

oh dude.. seriously? Chiro's entire "methodology" is based on something called "subluxation". Go and ask your local Chiro what it is, and get them to show you what it is. You'll be waiting a while. its complete bullshit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebral_subluxation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebral_subluxation There is No. Such. Thing. They're dangerous pseudo science pushers, with no evidence to back up their core basis to operate. Go to a physio therapist. Their medicinal practices are based on good, solid scientific evidence based medicine. lastly.. here is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing you'll ever see, a Chiro doing an "adjustment" on a snapping turtle... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=693MsUkQzsA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=693MsUkQzsA

dnh44 9y ago

I had a problem with my shoulder, for which doctors recommended surgery. Decided to try a chiropractor and the problem went away permanently after a few sessions.

pfarnsworth 9y ago
According to hacker news, unfortunately you are misinformed anti-science idiot, and your anecdote doesn't count. Prepare to be downvoted by armchair experts.