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I think it's a bit naive to believe that guitar heroes can bring the interest for the guitar back. People look back at the guitar heroes time with a nostalgic f

by d--b 9y ago

I think it's a bit naive to believe that guitar heroes can bring the interest for the guitar back. People look back at the guitar heroes time with a nostalgic fondness for a time that doesn't exist anymore. This was already visible in Wayne's world and became more than obvious in school of rock. Guitar-heavy rock has become a geek genre. Pop has moved on. There are obviously various reasons for this: 1. Technologically the instrument ran its course. While the tech was still innovative in the 90s with the new digital effects, it hasn't changed much in 20 years. 2. Electronic music however has brought in a lot of new sounds that gave pop music a fresh start in the 2000s 3. People seem to be more interested in 2 things: dancing and lyrics. You could write songs with totally inintelligible lyrics and a good solo, and you'd have a hit. I don't think that's true anymore. Similarly a solo kind of ruins the dancing. I think die hard rock fans need to get over it, guitar heroes are not coming back any time soon. I don't think it means the electric guitar is going to die. It still is an amazingly cool instrument. But, it means that your average kid may not want to try to play that "ten years after" intro anymore.

zdkl 9y ago
I think you're missing the point. The question is certainly not whether the guitar heroes of old inspire new generations to the same extent it did us. Sure pop has moved on from the image of hairy flashy axe wielding fairies shredding away while 3 other dudes prance around. But that's fashion. It has little to do with the instrument and everything to do with fads and marketing. Also you can sure as hell not ruin dancing with a solo (Black Sabbath, Led zep, Red Fang more recently!?), the issue is that there are too many fretboard wankers who pushed technical style for technical style's sake. That is what I hope the next generation of metal/rock guitarists will break away from. Keep it heavy, and keep it coming \m/ (sorry hn)
johan_larson 9y ago
The electric guitar is now what the saxophone was in the fifties: the iconic instrument of the hottest music of dad's generation.
- fh973 9y ago
  Hold on, I am a not very young dad and the music of my youth was with two turntables and a mic. The 90s golden age of hip hop :) There was also electronic music like techno, drum and bass, ... Guitar music is I'd say evergreen, but hasn't been the hottest thing for much longer.
  - johan_larson 9y ago
    OK, so it's the music of dad's dad's generation. I was double-extra right. :)
    - shadow_banned 9y ago
      Now kiss
  - s3graham 9y ago
    Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, Metallica... 90s were still pretty hot on guitars. (Maybe less so by the late 90s, so maybe I'm a few years old than you :)
- grondilu 9y ago
  That may be an accurate comparison.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Funny how saxophone was a big sidewinger in 80s pop too.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - zwieback 9y ago
    I tried and failed at playing the solo from Urgent on my sax
- InitialLastName 9y ago
iainmerrick 9y ago
There's a whole section near the end of the article about a noticeable bump in sales of guitars to women, inspired by Taylor Swift. You just have to be more flexible about what "guitar hero" can mean.
- hoorayimhelping 9y ago
  I think even the most flexible definition of guitar hero shouldn't include Taylor Swift. I'd say that style of guitar - using it for texture under the song - is antithetical to guitar heroism. The guitar became heroic because it broke out of the background music section of the band that supports the singer and became a star in its own right. It was another avenue of expression just by itself. Strumming some chords on an acoustic guitar as part of a song where the focus is the story of the lyrics doesn't require a guitar. It could be swapped with a keyboard, or a mandolin or a piano and it wouldn't really change the song that much.
  - sdenton4 9y ago
    An electric guitar is really just six independent oscillators with an archaic user interface...
    - throwawaylolol 9y ago
      And music is really just a the electrical impulses from bunch of soundwaves banging up against the membrane in our eardrums. Jeez, that kind of reductionism really kills the magic (not to mention ignoring the talent and feel involved for an artist to make those oscillators 'speak' to you)
      - abiox 9y ago
        "It is a poor poet that falls silent when he finds out that the sun is actually a massive sphere of hydrogen fusing into helium." -Richard Feynman
  - iainmerrick 9y ago
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kinleyd 9y ago
<I think it's a bit naive to believe that guitar heroes can bring the interest for the guitar back.> Isn't it the heroes in any field that inspire others to take it up? Or are you saying that there can never be another guitar hero again who will be good enough to inspire another generation? That would be naive, wouldn't it, considering how awesome the electric guitar is?
manmal 9y ago
Nickleback is a good example of a band that keeps the guitar alive. Yes, they don't play ANY soli (or do they?), but they get serious airtime and I haven't heard kids call them old-fashioned..
- snarfy 9y ago
  Of all the examples to pick from...
  - manmal 9y ago
    So I'm downvoted on HN for mentioning Nickleback now? If you listen to the whole of their albums and not only the commercial hits, it's a really solid rock band. Now give me some of the other examples of rock bands that regularly make it to the top 10.
    - SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
      Foo Fighters?
      - manmal 9y ago
        That's a legit example and I dig them a lot!
      - laumars 9y ago
        A topical example considering they were the headline act at Glastonbury last night.
    - douche 9y ago
      Green Day had their moment, although it has passed. The Black Keys are good, but maybe not that mainstream. The best show I've ever seen was Avenged Sevenfold, which is definitely in the metal niche. But I'll never forget when they had a break in the middle of the show, and their lead guitarist came out and just solo'd for a while. Incredible talent.
    - 9y ago
Nav_Panel 9y ago
> Similarly a solo kind of ruins the dancing. The right kind of solo can accelerate the dancing. 80s pop had it all figured out in this regard: some of the best dance music ever made while also being phenomenal pop music.
moogly 9y ago
> 1. Technologically the instrument ran its course. While the tech was still innovative in the 90s with the new digital effects, it hasn't changed much in 20 years. This is... whilst not exactly incorrect, it's not the whole truth either. The article touched a little bit on this with the robotic tuner thing, but didn't fully explain why. In my experience partaking in internet guitar forums over the decades, the vast majority of guitar players are really conservative. Extremely conservative. Especially people who mostly are into Fender/Gibson/PRS. They shun every new material (graphite/carbon fiber necks/fretboards), even if it has clear advantages (torsion/tensile/impact strength, weight, temperature/humidity insensitivity), often with unscientific emotional-based hand-waving like "it sounds too cold". Headless guitars also stayed niche, even though they have clear advantages (lighter, shorter, more well-balanced, can't break your headstock off — a quite common way to damage your guitar). It also took decades for 7-string guitars not to get scoffed at. The first 15+ years you had a lot of guitarists making fun of people with 7-string guitars. After they became somewhat accepted, 8-string guitars had an easier time, mind you. People are very sceptical of True Temperament (http://www.truetemperament.com/ http://www.truetemperament.com/) as well, believing that you can't perform string bending (you can, it doesn't really feel any different), and decided that to be the truth without even bothering to try. There are still many areas on the guitar you can improve and innovate (and some stuff out there already that primarily Ned Steinberger showed us in the 80s could (and IMO should) be standard), but people want fragile, heavy and climate-sensitive "tonewood" in their guitars. They want soft brass bridges. They want maintenance-heavy soft "nickel/silver" (actually brass and nickel) frets. They want headstocks. Maybe these old people in the article (I'm 37 so I'm one of them as well, I guess) are the problem, and when younger people that don't revere the word "vintage" so much can usher in the era of the truly modern guitar that Ned Steinberger has shown us glimpses of? One can only hope.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  >Maybe these old people in the article (I'm 37 so I'm one of them as well, I guess) are the problem, and when younger people that don't revere the word "vintage" so much can usher in the era of the truly modern guitar that Ned Steinberger has shown us glimpses of? One can only hope. It's already happening. A huge proportion of young guitarists are playing metal, which is a hugely progressive scene in terms of technology. The coolest young guitarists are playing Strandberg Bodens, Kiesel Vaders and the weird and wonderful stuff from Ibanez's Iron Label. 7, 8 and 9 strings, fanned frets, headless, active electronics, carbon and titanium reinforcement, it's all on the table. They're abandoning valve amps in favour of Helix, AxeFX and Bias. They couldn't give a toss about Hendrix and Clapton - they revere the likes of Tosin Abasi and Rob Scallion. The baby boomers have disproportionate influence because they've got a ton of disposable income, but big changes are afoot in the guitar business. The future of guitar looks very much like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMbW4sptVnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMbW4sptVnE
mcv 9y ago
> I think die hard rock fans need to get over it, guitar heroes are not coming back any time soon. I disagree. The guitar isn't gone yet, and even if there are newer instruments, the guitar will be with us for a long time. And there's more to music than dancing. Even if guitars will be playing second fiddle to computers, they'll remain relevant just like violins are still relevant (and perhaps making a comeback in the hands of people like Lindsey Stirling). Besides, I need guitars in my dance music. Dance music shouldn't be sterile. The dirty, distorted sound of a guitar gives my the energy to dance in a way that an electronic beat does not.

by d--b 9y ago

zdkl 9y ago

I think you're missing the point. The question is certainly not whether the guitar heroes of old inspire new generations to the same extent it did us. Sure pop has moved on from the image of hairy flashy axe wielding fairies shredding away while 3 other dudes prance around. But that's fashion. It has little to do with the instrument and everything to do with fads and marketing. Also you can sure as hell not ruin dancing with a solo (Black Sabbath, Led zep, Red Fang more recently!?), the issue is that there are too many fretboard wankers who pushed technical style for technical style's sake. That is what I hope the next generation of metal/rock guitarists will break away from. Keep it heavy, and keep it coming \m/ (sorry hn)

johan_larson 9y ago

The electric guitar is now what the saxophone was in the fifties: the iconic instrument of the hottest music of dad's generation.

fh973 9y ago
Hold on, I am a not very young dad and the music of my youth was with two turntables and a mic. The 90s golden age of hip hop :) There was also electronic music like techno, drum and bass, ... Guitar music is I'd say evergreen, but hasn't been the hottest thing for much longer.
- johan_larson 9y ago
  OK, so it's the music of dad's dad's generation. I was double-extra right. :)
  - shadow_banned 9y ago
    Now kiss
- s3graham 9y ago
  Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins, Soundgarden, Metallica... 90s were still pretty hot on guitars. (Maybe less so by the late 90s, so maybe I'm a few years old than you :)
grondilu 9y ago
That may be an accurate comparison.
agumonkey 9y ago
Funny how saxophone was a big sidewinger in 80s pop too.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- zwieback 9y ago
  I tried and failed at playing the solo from Urgent on my sax
InitialLastName 9y ago

iainmerrick 9y ago

There's a whole section near the end of the article about a noticeable bump in sales of guitars to women, inspired by Taylor Swift. You just have to be more flexible about what "guitar hero" can mean.

hoorayimhelping 9y ago
I think even the most flexible definition of guitar hero shouldn't include Taylor Swift. I'd say that style of guitar - using it for texture under the song - is antithetical to guitar heroism. The guitar became heroic because it broke out of the background music section of the band that supports the singer and became a star in its own right. It was another avenue of expression just by itself. Strumming some chords on an acoustic guitar as part of a song where the focus is the story of the lyrics doesn't require a guitar. It could be swapped with a keyboard, or a mandolin or a piano and it wouldn't really change the song that much.
- sdenton4 9y ago
  An electric guitar is really just six independent oscillators with an archaic user interface...
  - throwawaylolol 9y ago
    And music is really just a the electrical impulses from bunch of soundwaves banging up against the membrane in our eardrums. Jeez, that kind of reductionism really kills the magic (not to mention ignoring the talent and feel involved for an artist to make those oscillators 'speak' to you)
    - abiox 9y ago
      "It is a poor poet that falls silent when he finds out that the sun is actually a massive sphere of hydrogen fusing into helium." -Richard Feynman
- iainmerrick 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

kinleyd 9y ago

<I think it's a bit naive to believe that guitar heroes can bring the interest for the guitar back.> Isn't it the heroes in any field that inspire others to take it up? Or are you saying that there can never be another guitar hero again who will be good enough to inspire another generation? That would be naive, wouldn't it, considering how awesome the electric guitar is?

manmal 9y ago

Nickleback is a good example of a band that keeps the guitar alive. Yes, they don't play ANY soli (or do they?), but they get serious airtime and I haven't heard kids call them old-fashioned..

snarfy 9y ago
Of all the examples to pick from...
- manmal 9y ago
  So I'm downvoted on HN for mentioning Nickleback now? If you listen to the whole of their albums and not only the commercial hits, it's a really solid rock band. Now give me some of the other examples of rock bands that regularly make it to the top 10.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
    Foo Fighters?
    - manmal 9y ago
      That's a legit example and I dig them a lot!
    - laumars 9y ago
      A topical example considering they were the headline act at Glastonbury last night.
  - douche 9y ago
    Green Day had their moment, although it has passed. The Black Keys are good, but maybe not that mainstream. The best show I've ever seen was Avenged Sevenfold, which is definitely in the metal niche. But I'll never forget when they had a break in the middle of the show, and their lead guitarist came out and just solo'd for a while. Incredible talent.
  - 9y ago

Nav_Panel 9y ago

> Similarly a solo kind of ruins the dancing. The right kind of solo can accelerate the dancing. 80s pop had it all figured out in this regard: some of the best dance music ever made while also being phenomenal pop music.

moogly 9y ago

> 1. Technologically the instrument ran its course. While the tech was still innovative in the 90s with the new digital effects, it hasn't changed much in 20 years. This is... whilst not exactly incorrect, it's not the whole truth either. The article touched a little bit on this with the robotic tuner thing, but didn't fully explain why. In my experience partaking in internet guitar forums over the decades, the vast majority of guitar players are really conservative. Extremely conservative. Especially people who mostly are into Fender/Gibson/PRS. They shun every new material (graphite/carbon fiber necks/fretboards), even if it has clear advantages (torsion/tensile/impact strength, weight, temperature/humidity insensitivity), often with unscientific emotional-based hand-waving like "it sounds too cold". Headless guitars also stayed niche, even though they have clear advantages (lighter, shorter, more well-balanced, can't break your headstock off — a quite common way to damage your guitar). It also took decades for 7-string guitars not to get scoffed at. The first 15+ years you had a lot of guitarists making fun of people with 7-string guitars. After they became somewhat accepted, 8-string guitars had an easier time, mind you. People are very sceptical of True Temperament (http://www.truetemperament.com/ http://www.truetemperament.com/) as well, believing that you can't perform string bending (you can, it doesn't really feel any different), and decided that to be the truth without even bothering to try. There are still many areas on the guitar you can improve and innovate (and some stuff out there already that primarily Ned Steinberger showed us in the 80s could (and IMO should) be standard), but people want fragile, heavy and climate-sensitive "tonewood" in their guitars. They want soft brass bridges. They want maintenance-heavy soft "nickel/silver" (actually brass and nickel) frets. They want headstocks. Maybe these old people in the article (I'm 37 so I'm one of them as well, I guess) are the problem, and when younger people that don't revere the word "vintage" so much can usher in the era of the truly modern guitar that Ned Steinberger has shown us glimpses of? One can only hope.

jdietrich 9y ago
>Maybe these old people in the article (I'm 37 so I'm one of them as well, I guess) are the problem, and when younger people that don't revere the word "vintage" so much can usher in the era of the truly modern guitar that Ned Steinberger has shown us glimpses of? One can only hope. It's already happening. A huge proportion of young guitarists are playing metal, which is a hugely progressive scene in terms of technology. The coolest young guitarists are playing Strandberg Bodens, Kiesel Vaders and the weird and wonderful stuff from Ibanez's Iron Label. 7, 8 and 9 strings, fanned frets, headless, active electronics, carbon and titanium reinforcement, it's all on the table. They're abandoning valve amps in favour of Helix, AxeFX and Bias. They couldn't give a toss about Hendrix and Clapton - they revere the likes of Tosin Abasi and Rob Scallion. The baby boomers have disproportionate influence because they've got a ton of disposable income, but big changes are afoot in the guitar business. The future of guitar looks very much like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMbW4sptVnE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMbW4sptVnE

mcv 9y ago

> I think die hard rock fans need to get over it, guitar heroes are not coming back any time soon. I disagree. The guitar isn't gone yet, and even if there are newer instruments, the guitar will be with us for a long time. And there's more to music than dancing. Even if guitars will be playing second fiddle to computers, they'll remain relevant just like violins are still relevant (and perhaps making a comeback in the hands of people like Lindsey Stirling). Besides, I need guitars in my dance music. Dance music shouldn't be sterile. The dirty, distorted sound of a guitar gives my the energy to dance in a way that an electronic beat does not.