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Never ever publicly tell stuff like that you're suicidal. It's a recipe for disaster. People think they have to send police after you, lock you up and put you u

by Kenji 9y ago

Never ever publicly tell stuff like that you're suicidal. It's a recipe for disaster. People think they have to send police after you, lock you up and put you under watch - mostly causing more harm and problems than good. They actually think that it is morally okay to violate your freedoms in this situation. Get help - the best way would be to talk to someone face to face. Don't post morbid stuff on the net, you worry everybody crazy.

Houshalter 9y ago
Are you saying it's not morally ok to stop suicidal people? You really wouldn't even if it was your friend or loved one? Would you want them reading comments like this, telling them to keep it secret?
- Kenji 9y ago
  Yes, that is what I am saying. My respect for self-ownership and individual choice runs so deep that if someone truly wants to die (not as in voicing suicidal thoughts as a cry for help, but actually wanting to die), I'd respect that. If someone has the right to live, they should have the right to die. As for telling them to keep it a secret (at least to the public) - that is not because I would mind. It's just an advice to protect themselves because society tends to react to this stuff in extremely retarded ways.
  - eropple 9y ago
    > if someone truly wants to die (not as in voicing suicidal thoughts as a cry for help, but actually wanting to die) Explain to me how you differentiate outside of the relatively clear cases, such as physician-assisted suicide? Using "retarded" as a pejorative--we're already not in a good place. But I'd like to hear your reasoning, if it exists.
    - kelnos 9y ago
      I think it's really hard, if not impossible, to make that determination, and that's the moral hazard. There are also people who believe that any desire to commit suicide is a mental health issue that can and should be fixed. I think it's reasonable to always err on the side of caution, since obviously we can't (yet) reverse death, so there's no going back in the case where the causes of the suicidal feelings can actually be fixed. But I also believe in self-determination: if you really are determined to end your life -- for any reason -- you should be allowed to do so. So I guess I'm personally somewhere in the middle: try to stop suicide attempts, but if, after getting help, the person still wants to end their life, maybe you should just respect their wishes and let them go, as hard as doing so may be.
  - Houshalter 9y ago
    Most people who attempt suicide and survive say they regret it. Usually almost immediately. Suicidal moods are often temporary and they would be fine if they waited it out. I might agree in principle that people have a right to end their lives. But in practice it seems like suicidal people are not making a perfectly informed decision and are better off being saved from suicide. And suicide doesn't just affect that person, it affects everyone around them too you know. And therefore I honestly think comments like yours are dangerous. Telling suicidal people to stay quiet and not get help they need, or even encouraging them to do it. This is something that personally affects me a great deal. I have a close friend who often has thoughts of suicide. I dread that the day will come I will find out they are dead, and I will be devastated. I'd do anything to prevent that. Their moods are always temporary and they go back and forth from being depressed to on top of the world in just a few days.
    - Kenji 9y ago
      >Most people who attempt suicide and survive say they regret it. And later on they may regret failing their attempts. >But in practice it seems like suicidal people are not making a perfectly informed decision Many people don't make perfectly informed decisions about a variety of things, yet we allow them to exercise their freedom to do so. >And suicide doesn't just affect that person, it affects everyone around them too you know. That's a stupidly selfish and ignorant argument of everyone around the person. "You gotta keep on living because otherwise I feel sad." Not even considering that the mourning of a death of a friend is nothing compared to the suffering of a full-blown suicidal depression. If someone had terminal cancer and was suffering horrible pain every day, you wouldn't tell them to go on because them dying "affects everyone around them too you know". >Telling suicidal people to stay quiet and not get help they need, or even encouraging them to do it. I did neither of those. I clearly stated "Get help". I clearly stated to seek out dialogue, but not publicly over the internet. I never encouraged anyone to kill themselves, I just want to protect the liberty of anyone to do it. All in all, you completely misunderstood me.

by Kenji 9y ago

Houshalter 9y ago

Are you saying it's not morally ok to stop suicidal people? You really wouldn't even if it was your friend or loved one? Would you want them reading comments like this, telling them to keep it secret?

Kenji 9y ago
Yes, that is what I am saying. My respect for self-ownership and individual choice runs so deep that if someone truly wants to die (not as in voicing suicidal thoughts as a cry for help, but actually wanting to die), I'd respect that. If someone has the right to live, they should have the right to die. As for telling them to keep it a secret (at least to the public) - that is not because I would mind. It's just an advice to protect themselves because society tends to react to this stuff in extremely retarded ways.
- eropple 9y ago
  > if someone truly wants to die (not as in voicing suicidal thoughts as a cry for help, but actually wanting to die) Explain to me how you differentiate outside of the relatively clear cases, such as physician-assisted suicide? Using "retarded" as a pejorative--we're already not in a good place. But I'd like to hear your reasoning, if it exists.
  - kelnos 9y ago
    I think it's really hard, if not impossible, to make that determination, and that's the moral hazard. There are also people who believe that any desire to commit suicide is a mental health issue that can and should be fixed. I think it's reasonable to always err on the side of caution, since obviously we can't (yet) reverse death, so there's no going back in the case where the causes of the suicidal feelings can actually be fixed. But I also believe in self-determination: if you really are determined to end your life -- for any reason -- you should be allowed to do so. So I guess I'm personally somewhere in the middle: try to stop suicide attempts, but if, after getting help, the person still wants to end their life, maybe you should just respect their wishes and let them go, as hard as doing so may be.
- Houshalter 9y ago
  Most people who attempt suicide and survive say they regret it. Usually almost immediately. Suicidal moods are often temporary and they would be fine if they waited it out. I might agree in principle that people have a right to end their lives. But in practice it seems like suicidal people are not making a perfectly informed decision and are better off being saved from suicide. And suicide doesn't just affect that person, it affects everyone around them too you know. And therefore I honestly think comments like yours are dangerous. Telling suicidal people to stay quiet and not get help they need, or even encouraging them to do it. This is something that personally affects me a great deal. I have a close friend who often has thoughts of suicide. I dread that the day will come I will find out they are dead, and I will be devastated. I'd do anything to prevent that. Their moods are always temporary and they go back and forth from being depressed to on top of the world in just a few days.
  - Kenji 9y ago
    >Most people who attempt suicide and survive say they regret it. And later on they may regret failing their attempts. >But in practice it seems like suicidal people are not making a perfectly informed decision Many people don't make perfectly informed decisions about a variety of things, yet we allow them to exercise their freedom to do so. >And suicide doesn't just affect that person, it affects everyone around them too you know. That's a stupidly selfish and ignorant argument of everyone around the person. "You gotta keep on living because otherwise I feel sad." Not even considering that the mourning of a death of a friend is nothing compared to the suffering of a full-blown suicidal depression. If someone had terminal cancer and was suffering horrible pain every day, you wouldn't tell them to go on because them dying "affects everyone around them too you know". >Telling suicidal people to stay quiet and not get help they need, or even encouraging them to do it. I did neither of those. I clearly stated "Get help". I clearly stated to seek out dialogue, but not publicly over the internet. I never encouraged anyone to kill themselves, I just want to protect the liberty of anyone to do it. All in all, you completely misunderstood me.