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I've found human lives to consist in significant part of feedback loops. Positive feedback loops, and negative feedback loops. A person receiving positive fee

I've found human lives to consist in significant part of feedback loops. Positive feedback loops, and negative feedback loops. A person receiving positive feedback tends to feel better, be more socially comfortable and engaging, and to receive resources that help them on their journey. This response and that assistance actually helps them become better. Better nutrition, more attentive and patient instruction. Etc. It's not just that things are done for them; it's that the feedback loops can improve their own performance. A person receiving negative feedback tends to feel worse, to be socially uncomfortable and isolated, and the be denied helpful resources and assistance. The negative feedback loop can result in that person withdrawing more and more. I've been there: Most people do not want to be where they are not welcome. It is one of the worst feelings. Negative feedback loops tend to spill over into one's physical health, and that unhealthiness furthers the rejection. It is not just the "big things." People with a popular appearance routinely get bigger servings, more engaged and attentive care. More respect. It's pervasive. Pay attention. You'll see it all around you, every day, everywhere. I've been burned a few times by "attractive" people who deliberately used this to their advantage. And I've been slowly figuring out, at an emotional, "feel it" level -- as opposed to intellectual -- why some people outright pre-emptively reject attractive people. They've learned a life lesson: Interacting with those people too often places them on the losing side. Whether they are being deliberately used by those people, or just because of the comparative way they are treated by surrounding people.

psyc 9y ago
I would like to paste this comment everywhere the causality of depression is discussed.
jjtheblunt 9y ago
What an amazingly perceptive description, seriously well thought out. Truly impressed.
mncharity 9y ago
> feedback loops That's the basis of social-belonging and other mindset interventions.[1] For example, when you encounters difficulty as a freshman in college, do you think "I don't belong here", or "everyone has difficulties - I can get help, work hard, and succeed, like I've done in the past". Students who feel like they belong, build stronger support networks, more readily get help, feel better, and so. Both narratives then do feedback, and outcomes diverge. So surprisingly small interventions, to nudge the initial interpretation, like an hour in high school, or an essay at the beginning of a course, can have a surprisingly large impact. I wonder if the future will look back our current lack of mental hygiene interventions, the way we now look back at the 1800's lack of physical hygiene interventions. Something like, well, it took a couple of decades, but NYC finally stopped politically-connected brewers from killing hundreds of children with adulterated milk from sick cows.[2] [1] http://gregorywalton-stanford.weebly.com/papers.html http://gregorywalton-stanford.weebly.com/papers.html [2] https://www.google.com/#q=swill+milk https://www.google.com/#q=swill+milk
- ccdev 9y ago
  It's quite interesting to me that you can find homeostasis in physiological systems, but not in social systems, where runaway effects prevail. And seemingly a more robust social system would create a tendency for people to reach a more stable social state rather then continue to descend in a downward spiral. (BTW the "negative feedback" loop mentioned in this topic is technically still a positive feedback, because the effects of the cause produces more of the cause. True negative feedback creates a counteractive force that promotes equilibrium- it has nothing to do with emotional negativity)
  - pasbesoin 9y ago
    That's a good point. I guess I might have more accurately stated them as "positive psychological/physiological feedback loop" and "negative psychological/physiological feedback loop. You're right, as I describe them, both are "positive" in terms of reinforcing amplification.
return0 9y ago
That rings true. Queen bees
qb45 9y ago
The effects you described are absolutely real, but your abuse of control theory jargon deserves condemnation. Positive feedback is when a process reinforces itself: the uglier you are, the more others hate you, the uglier you become. Negative feedback is when a process cancels itself: the better you look, the more others envy and sabotage you, at some point you can't go further.
rawrmaan 9y ago
This is one of the best comments I've ever read. Well said.

psyc 9y ago

I would like to paste this comment everywhere the causality of depression is discussed.

jjtheblunt 9y ago

What an amazingly perceptive description, seriously well thought out. Truly impressed.

mncharity 9y ago

> feedback loops That's the basis of social-belonging and other mindset interventions.[1] For example, when you encounters difficulty as a freshman in college, do you think "I don't belong here", or "everyone has difficulties - I can get help, work hard, and succeed, like I've done in the past". Students who feel like they belong, build stronger support networks, more readily get help, feel better, and so. Both narratives then do feedback, and outcomes diverge. So surprisingly small interventions, to nudge the initial interpretation, like an hour in high school, or an essay at the beginning of a course, can have a surprisingly large impact. I wonder if the future will look back our current lack of mental hygiene interventions, the way we now look back at the 1800's lack of physical hygiene interventions. Something like, well, it took a couple of decades, but NYC finally stopped politically-connected brewers from killing hundreds of children with adulterated milk from sick cows.[2] [1] http://gregorywalton-stanford.weebly.com/papers.html http://gregorywalton-stanford.weebly.com/papers.html [2] https://www.google.com/#q=swill+milk https://www.google.com/#q=swill+milk

ccdev 9y ago
It's quite interesting to me that you can find homeostasis in physiological systems, but not in social systems, where runaway effects prevail. And seemingly a more robust social system would create a tendency for people to reach a more stable social state rather then continue to descend in a downward spiral. (BTW the "negative feedback" loop mentioned in this topic is technically still a positive feedback, because the effects of the cause produces more of the cause. True negative feedback creates a counteractive force that promotes equilibrium- it has nothing to do with emotional negativity)
- pasbesoin 9y ago
  That's a good point. I guess I might have more accurately stated them as "positive psychological/physiological feedback loop" and "negative psychological/physiological feedback loop. You're right, as I describe them, both are "positive" in terms of reinforcing amplification.

return0 9y ago

That rings true. Queen bees

qb45 9y ago

The effects you described are absolutely real, but your abuse of control theory jargon deserves condemnation. Positive feedback is when a process reinforces itself: the uglier you are, the more others hate you, the uglier you become. Negative feedback is when a process cancels itself: the better you look, the more others envy and sabotage you, at some point you can't go further.

rawrmaan 9y ago

This is one of the best comments I've ever read. Well said.