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This unfortunately seems to again validate John Boyd's sentiment that a low tech, highly maneuverable, simple and reliable single purpose fighter with a simple

This unfortunately seems to again validate John Boyd's sentiment that a low tech, highly maneuverable, simple and reliable single purpose fighter with a simple gun is a better investment for actually winning a war than incredibly expensive high-tech planes tested by people with clip boards. Edit: Between 1 F35 for $85 million or 5 F16 for $73 million total my money would most certainly be on the F16s.

bigdubs 9y ago
It validates that the US military needs to test against other countries flares.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  And then they make new flares without telling us.
deleted 9y ago
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greedo 9y ago
Boyd hated the F-15. Funny how the F-15 is undefeated, and if you look at how it has fared in Israeli hands, it's one of the most exceptional fighters when it comes to actual combat... And you seem to be implying that numerous SU-22s would have fared well against the Super Hornet? You could put 10 Fitters up against the Bug, and it'd still win before going winchester.
- vlehto 9y ago
  The super hornet typically only carries 6 air to air missiles. While SU-22 can carry the most modern short range aa missiles. Hornet would not win with gun only against 4 missile armed fitters. If the missiles are modern. In air warfare numbers have always mattered and always will.
  - greedo 9y ago
    Iraqis thought the same thing, as did most of the Arab world when fighting the Israelis. While Stalin was partially right (quantity has a quality all its own), the most valuable factor in determining the outcome of air combat is pilot skill. And even if the Fitter pilots were as good as the Hornet pilot, they don't have as good ESSM/ECM systems, nor as good AWACs providing support. The Bug doesn't even typically carry 6 AAMs. The one that did the shootdown probably only had 3-4 depending on its mission tasking. They have to worry about bring back weight when landing on their carrier. But for our hypothetical, the Bug can carry 12 missiles without a lot of trouble (1). It might not have much range, and the drag would be a bitch, but the Fitters would go down in flames... 1. http://runway.cz/img/zbr/aim120_2.jpg http://runway.cz/img/zbr/aim120_2.jpg
eggestad 9y ago
Nonsense. All A2A kills since 1999 have been with missiles. The F-16 have very preciously few A2A kills using guns.

bigdubs 9y ago

It validates that the US military needs to test against other countries flares.

ajmurmann 9y ago
And then they make new flares without telling us.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

greedo 9y ago

Boyd hated the F-15. Funny how the F-15 is undefeated, and if you look at how it has fared in Israeli hands, it's one of the most exceptional fighters when it comes to actual combat... And you seem to be implying that numerous SU-22s would have fared well against the Super Hornet? You could put 10 Fitters up against the Bug, and it'd still win before going winchester.

vlehto 9y ago
The super hornet typically only carries 6 air to air missiles. While SU-22 can carry the most modern short range aa missiles. Hornet would not win with gun only against 4 missile armed fitters. If the missiles are modern. In air warfare numbers have always mattered and always will.
- greedo 9y ago
  Iraqis thought the same thing, as did most of the Arab world when fighting the Israelis. While Stalin was partially right (quantity has a quality all its own), the most valuable factor in determining the outcome of air combat is pilot skill. And even if the Fitter pilots were as good as the Hornet pilot, they don't have as good ESSM/ECM systems, nor as good AWACs providing support. The Bug doesn't even typically carry 6 AAMs. The one that did the shootdown probably only had 3-4 depending on its mission tasking. They have to worry about bring back weight when landing on their carrier. But for our hypothetical, the Bug can carry 12 missiles without a lot of trouble (1). It might not have much range, and the drag would be a bitch, but the Fitters would go down in flames... 1. http://runway.cz/img/zbr/aim120_2.jpg http://runway.cz/img/zbr/aim120_2.jpg

eggestad 9y ago

Nonsense. All A2A kills since 1999 have been with missiles. The F-16 have very preciously few A2A kills using guns.