3 ms·

I'm not opposed to limiting car space in favor of people space, but I also see EVs as a solution if the problem is emissions. No need to ban all cars, just gas-

by sxates 9y ago

I'm not opposed to limiting car space in favor of people space, but I also see EVs as a solution if the problem is emissions. No need to ban all cars, just gas-powered ones.

lazyjones 9y ago
> No need to ban all cars, just gas-powered ones. Seconded. Especially since while riding a bicycle, people likely emit more CO₂ than an electric car. ;-)
- yladiz 9y ago
  Directly, sure, but charging your car generates carbon dioxide, as do the manufacturing processes behind the components. Manufacturing an electric car is in some ways worse for the environment than a traditional car.
  - lazyjones 9y ago
    > charging your car generates carbon dioxide, Not if you charge from a PV array ... > as do the manufacturing processes behind the components. Same as every other manufacturing process, even for bicycles, your clothes etc. ... > Manufacturing an electric car is in some ways worse for the environment than a traditional car. That's nonsense. Says Elon Musk and so do various studies (in contrast to a recent, widely quoted swedish one).
    - majewsky 9y ago
      > > Manufacturing an electric car is in some ways worse for the environment than a traditional car. > That's nonsense. Says Elon Musk and so do various studies (in contrast to a recent, widely quoted swedish one). Well, how much better is an EV car, compared to an ICE car, in terms of emissions over its whole lifetime? If it's only 5% better, or even 20%, it's not enough. If we're judging a mode of transport by its emissions, then EVs don't have to compete with ICEs. They have to compete with bikes and walking where those modes of transport can reasonably displace cars.
      - lazyjones 9y ago
        > If we're judging a mode of transport by its emissions, then EVs don't have to compete with ICEs. They have to compete with bikes and walking where those modes of transport can reasonably displace cars. Emissions somewhere else than the place where they're used are irrelevant for the question whether to allow them in cities or not. EV cars are 100% emission free in cities and if you're being pedantic, they compare favourably to cyclists and pedestrians because these emit more CO₂ than EV car + driver due to being physically more active and exhaling CO₂.
csydas 9y ago
Evs are in the long run good but make no mistake that the batteries come with an ecological cost during their use and afterlife. Evs, autonomous cars, and ride sharing are all good but for a major ecological change to happen there has to be a societal one as well. The future with autonomous cars isn't most efficient with everyone having their own car, it's with summonable cars that services own instead of individuals. Much of the benefit of autonomous cars is lost if the vehicles continue to sit unoccupied for the majority of the day. Likely for some time, anything more than a city wide autonomous car network won't be possible as the reliance on networked machines to offload the heavy lifting onto seems too great, much less to get it to poorly connected rural areas. Society needs to be willing to change how it uses cars in order for a major change to happen.

by sxates 9y ago

I'm not opposed to limiting car space in favor of people space, but I also see EVs as a solution if the problem is emissions. No need to ban all cars, just gas-powered ones.

lazyjones 9y ago

> No need to ban all cars, just gas-powered ones. Seconded. Especially since while riding a bicycle, people likely emit more CO₂ than an electric car. ;-)

yladiz 9y ago
Directly, sure, but charging your car generates carbon dioxide, as do the manufacturing processes behind the components. Manufacturing an electric car is in some ways worse for the environment than a traditional car.
- lazyjones 9y ago
  > charging your car generates carbon dioxide, Not if you charge from a PV array ... > as do the manufacturing processes behind the components. Same as every other manufacturing process, even for bicycles, your clothes etc. ... > Manufacturing an electric car is in some ways worse for the environment than a traditional car. That's nonsense. Says Elon Musk and so do various studies (in contrast to a recent, widely quoted swedish one).
  - majewsky 9y ago
    > > Manufacturing an electric car is in some ways worse for the environment than a traditional car. > That's nonsense. Says Elon Musk and so do various studies (in contrast to a recent, widely quoted swedish one). Well, how much better is an EV car, compared to an ICE car, in terms of emissions over its whole lifetime? If it's only 5% better, or even 20%, it's not enough. If we're judging a mode of transport by its emissions, then EVs don't have to compete with ICEs. They have to compete with bikes and walking where those modes of transport can reasonably displace cars.
    - lazyjones 9y ago
      > If we're judging a mode of transport by its emissions, then EVs don't have to compete with ICEs. They have to compete with bikes and walking where those modes of transport can reasonably displace cars. Emissions somewhere else than the place where they're used are irrelevant for the question whether to allow them in cities or not. EV cars are 100% emission free in cities and if you're being pedantic, they compare favourably to cyclists and pedestrians because these emit more CO₂ than EV car + driver due to being physically more active and exhaling CO₂.

csydas 9y ago

Evs are in the long run good but make no mistake that the batteries come with an ecological cost during their use and afterlife. Evs, autonomous cars, and ride sharing are all good but for a major ecological change to happen there has to be a societal one as well. The future with autonomous cars isn't most efficient with everyone having their own car, it's with summonable cars that services own instead of individuals. Much of the benefit of autonomous cars is lost if the vehicles continue to sit unoccupied for the majority of the day. Likely for some time, anything more than a city wide autonomous car network won't be possible as the reliance on networked machines to offload the heavy lifting onto seems too great, much less to get it to poorly connected rural areas. Society needs to be willing to change how it uses cars in order for a major change to happen.