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Without language there is no consciousnesses. That's it. The brain does what it does. We think, occasionally, then imagine that we cause brain to function. All

Without language there is no consciousnesses. That's it. The brain does what it does. We think, occasionally, then imagine that we cause brain to function. All animals are just dandy without complex language, it's not really a miracle that we are conscious, just a different too.

andrepd 9y ago
Why do you postulate that? Dogs have no language. Are they conscious? You cannot know, can you?
CuriouslyC 9y ago
Language is a learned behavior. Consciousness is a property of the learner. Language may influence conscious experience, but it certainly doesn't create it.
- 13of40 9y ago
  I think the development of complex language and the internal feedback mechanism it enabled might have led to a higher level of consciousness in humans.
  - CuriouslyC 9y ago
    It is entirely possible that language development created a self-reinforcing feedback loop for the development of intelligence. I don't think intelligence and consciousness are necessarily correlated though.
    - 13of40 9y ago
      Unless you think a shrimp is as conscious as a person, or that a dog is completely lacking in consciousness, you have to accept that consciousness comes in degrees. Unless you believe consciousness is supernatural, you have to accept that it has an organic origin. What that says to me is that humans have evolved brain structures that give us a higher level of consciousness than other animals, and IMO the best candidate for how that happened is we learned how to self-reflect through things like speech and art.
      - CuriouslyC 9y ago
        I don't know that the experience of being a human is any more vivid or real than the experience of being a shrimp. Don't conflate the ability to reason with the quality of having an internal experience. Perhaps the shrimp lives more truly, undistracted as it is by meaningless thoughts. The state of consciousness is correlated with the state of matter. We don't know more than that. We've assumed that physical reality is the ground state and consciousness is the phenomenon, but reality could just as easily be a dream in the mind of the universe. If consciousness can influence reality that would seem to indicate it is either equally fundamental to, or even precedent over material reality. The alternative, that consciousness is a passive observer, is both depressing and unlikely.
sametmax 9y ago
Conscientiousness is way more simpler than anything thay requires a language. It's just being, feeling and knowing it happens. Not description or analysis of it.
lazyant 9y ago
"Without language there is no consciousnesses" meh - how can I sometimes have thoughts (imagining going somewhere) and be conscious (for ex, waking up) while not having any internal monologue (not using any language) at those times?

andrepd 9y ago

Why do you postulate that? Dogs have no language. Are they conscious? You cannot know, can you?

CuriouslyC 9y ago

Language is a learned behavior. Consciousness is a property of the learner. Language may influence conscious experience, but it certainly doesn't create it.

13of40 9y ago
I think the development of complex language and the internal feedback mechanism it enabled might have led to a higher level of consciousness in humans.
- CuriouslyC 9y ago
  It is entirely possible that language development created a self-reinforcing feedback loop for the development of intelligence. I don't think intelligence and consciousness are necessarily correlated though.
  - 13of40 9y ago
    Unless you think a shrimp is as conscious as a person, or that a dog is completely lacking in consciousness, you have to accept that consciousness comes in degrees. Unless you believe consciousness is supernatural, you have to accept that it has an organic origin. What that says to me is that humans have evolved brain structures that give us a higher level of consciousness than other animals, and IMO the best candidate for how that happened is we learned how to self-reflect through things like speech and art.
    - CuriouslyC 9y ago
      I don't know that the experience of being a human is any more vivid or real than the experience of being a shrimp. Don't conflate the ability to reason with the quality of having an internal experience. Perhaps the shrimp lives more truly, undistracted as it is by meaningless thoughts. The state of consciousness is correlated with the state of matter. We don't know more than that. We've assumed that physical reality is the ground state and consciousness is the phenomenon, but reality could just as easily be a dream in the mind of the universe. If consciousness can influence reality that would seem to indicate it is either equally fundamental to, or even precedent over material reality. The alternative, that consciousness is a passive observer, is both depressing and unlikely.

sametmax 9y ago

Conscientiousness is way more simpler than anything thay requires a language. It's just being, feeling and knowing it happens. Not description or analysis of it.

lazyant 9y ago

"Without language there is no consciousnesses" meh - how can I sometimes have thoughts (imagining going somewhere) and be conscious (for ex, waking up) while not having any internal monologue (not using any language) at those times?