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FCC hits robocaller with agency's largest-ever fine of $120M
- ghaff 9y agoI probably get about 5 spoofed Caller ID robocalls a day between my cell and my landline. I don't pick them up but they're still enough to jerk me out of whatever I'm doing. I just wish there was an easier way to report them. At this point I've given up on the going online and filling out a form which basically requires me to have listened to the whole spiel to answer fully. I block the number but it's pretty pointless as they rotate at least the last four digits.
- mysterydip 9y agoWhat's worse is false positives. It conditions you to ignore any calls you don't immediately recognize, which can have consequences if someone is trying to get ahold of you for some timely legitimate reason. Some people don't leave voicemails, either.
- ghaff 9y agoWhich makes the local ID spoofing especially annoying. I'm pretty sure no one in Florida has a reason to contact me. Someone ostensibly in my town? Not so sure. Cell phone is actually easier because it's not a very local number anymore. But it also means I have to set it to Do Not Disturb while traveling across time zones. So no one can get me in the middle of the night in a legitimate emergency.
- dmoy 9y agoThis is the one time in my life that I've been glad to have a number from a place I don't live. All the hassle of trying to explain to people that yes, my area code is actually an area code, no it isn't from around here, etc. All absolved when I know I can ignore any number from my area code, 'cus who the hell wants to call me from there? Nobody.
- khedoros1 9y agoMine is from close enough that people recognize it, but far enough that the only people from there that would ever contact me are family members, and of course I already have their numbers programmed in. It is very convenient!
- jimbobimbo 9y agoIf people don't leave a voicemail (or send text), they don't have a "timely legitimate reason" then.
- Shivetya 9y agoWell Heather certainly loves to call me and its a combination of either using my area code and prefix or other companies randomly choosing long distance numbers. I have noticed spoofing of 8 numbers as well. how do these get through the phone system, can't they detect ANI being bad at the source? I used to work for a company where we logged our workers on and off shift; rent a cop; based on the ANI data from the phone call. So I am really curious how this isn't blocked by entry into the system.
- tyingq 9y agoSome providers send an ANI that has nothing to do with the actual caller, and some allow it to send nothing at all. See http://www.oldskoolphreak.com/tfiles/voip/voipani.txt http://www.oldskoolphreak.com/tfiles/voip/voipani.txt
- cletus 9y agoSo basically robocalls can only exist because of second tier telcos who cater specifically to them. They have enough legitimate traffic to essentially launder spam. They charge robocallers more and know exactly what they're doing. A lot of people deal with robocalls incorrectly by declining calls from unknown numbers. Don't do this. The correct solution is to answer the call, say nothing and hang up after 3 seconds. If it's a real call you'll hear background noise most of the time or the caller will say "hello?" Or they'll call back thinking something went wrong. Most robocallers are programmed to do nothing until they hear a voice. But the critical part of all this is hanging up within 6 seconds. This is the one thing that hurts the telco knowingly supporting this. If a telco has too many such calls they essentially get punished as a bad actor, which is why they need legitimate traffic. I think robocallers and their telcos have wished up to this as I suspect they'll stop calling you if you do this. When I started this I got 2-3 robocalls a week. Not a huge amount but annoying. Now I think it's been at least 2 months since I've gotten one. It could be that crackdowns on robocalls are yielding results but I'm not convinced.
- kharms 9y ago>But the critical part of all this is hanging up within 6 seconds. This is the one thing that hurts the telco knowingly supporting this You should explain why that number is critical, what happens before, what happens after.
- notyourday 9y agoIt is caused by the 6 second billing.
- losteverything 9y agoIf call is cell to cell and no direct access or egress to landline does the 6 second still apply? All kinds or rules here https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0198-telemarketing-sales-rule https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0198-telemarketing-sal...
- omginternets 9y ago
- nugget 9y agoI've quit answering any unknown calls due to this out of control robocall spam. At first I felt tinges of anxiety thinking that I might miss an important call, but that passed very quickly. Now I figure that if it's really important the interested party will find another way to reach me (email, sms) and I feel zero anxiety. It's an interesting change in behavior. I'd almost be willing to use an app that restricted calls to my address book plus a whitelisted group of vetted companies.
- johnnyb9 9y agoMy attitude as well. If someone wanted to get in touch with me for something important, I imagine they would leave a voicemail or text or email me. In my iPhone I have "do not disturb" setup and it only allows people in my address book through.
- jrnichols 9y agoI ended up subscribing ($19/yr) to NoMoRobo and it's worked well so far. Hiya was moved to a secondary position. That and T-Mobile's Call Protect (free) and the number of junk phone calls has dropped to maybe 2 a week, where it was up to 5-7 a day.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- fapjacks 9y agoThe Android app for this is called Extreme Call Blocker, and it's easily the best money I've ever spent on an app. It is event-based behavior that you define. For example, I whitelist my contacts, and anytime I receive a call from any other number, it picks up the phone and immediately hangs up, and I receive no notifications whatsoever. This has the nice effect of denying any access to voicemail. For my contacts, I have ECB let it ring a few times, and then also deny voicemail to people in my whitelist. Obviously I hate voicemail. Then, if ECB ends up picking-up-hanging-up-to-prevent-voicemail on a few of my special contacts after I don't answer (e.g. coworkers or family), I have it set up to helpfully send a "form SMS" to the contact telling them I'm not available and to call again or SMS if it's an emergency. Absolutely the best app I've ever purchased.
- cordite 9y agoUnfortunately I don't have the luxury of declining an "Unknown Number". Correctional complexes do not identify the number as only the inmate can call out and no call back number is provided. However I have not received any spam from "Unknown Number" due to this herd immunity to unknown number spam, which I am grateful for. Given my area codes are no longer where I live, I just assume numbers close to mine are accidents and don't bother answering them. Voicemail seems to validate this when a message is left.
- khedoros1 9y agoI think that for the most part, people aren't talking about when the phone literally says "unknown number", but when they've received a call from a number similar to their own that they don't recognize.
- nsb1 9y agoIMHO, the way to stop robocalling is to go after the services that employ them. If they're asking people to buy something, follow the money and slap a fine on the seller instead of the robocalling service. Robo calling profits ought to dry up as vendors become wary of using them.
- djrogers 9y agoIn this case the entity using the robocalls was foreign, so no FCC fine there.
- CaptSpify 9y agoThe problem I see with this is: If a business wants to damage their competitor, they can just start making robocalls on their behalf. I like your idea and would like it to happen for pretty much all advertising, but it seems like it can be easily abused.
- zo1 9y agoOf course you won't just follow the "product". You'll follow the money, too. And that will probably very clearly not lead to the target product that you're trying to damage.
- rhizome 9y agoAnd how do you go after the seller when scam voicemails don't disclose the name of the company, and when you get a human they hang up as soon as you ask?
- matthewmcg 9y agoThe CallKit blocking list feature in iOS 10 helps with this, at least in the case where the caller is not spoofing a legitimate number. I have a Miami area code and robocalls were a constant problem until I installed Nomorobo.
- yoda_sl 9y agoThe CallKit framework is definitely a welcome addition, and Nomorobo is quite good. I am actually working myself on a new app similar to Nomorobo, but with some additional features that so far no other app using CallKit provides. I decided to write such app because of the daily robo/telemarketers calls I am getting.
- leesalminen 9y agoI look forward to a Show HN post!
- enfo 9y agoI have a business interested in nomorobo type functionality. Pls contact me at enfo99@comcast.net
- enfo 9y agoInterested in a service like nomorobo with added features. Pls contact me enfo99@comcast.net
- Terretta 9y agoI will pay well for this provided you do not harvest call activity and your TOS has teeth against that. All others I’ve found so far harvest and resell your call network.
- syphilis2 9y agoI made the mistake of registering a .us domain and using my regular phone number, after six months I've started receiving the infamous robo IRS calls. The robot call is listed as being from 1-866-978-6618 and in the voicemail requests that I call back that same number. Online this number is listed as being used for the IRS scam in June 2017. How does a scammer set up an 800 phone number without having it traced back to them? Why is this number still operational after a week of scam calls?
- dawnerd 9y agoI've resorted to only using a google voice number for my domains. It's insane how much spam you get from being forced to provide contact info to the public.
- finnn 9y agoI have a VoIP line that goes no where (no voicemail, just drops the call) for things like this. Absolutely no legitimate communication will be made to my whois contact, so why bother routing it anywhere?
- wfunction 9y agoCan someone explain what "neighborhood spoofing" technology is? Is it legal (beyond the fact that it lets you spoof and match the first few digits)? Can anyone do it? What's a legitimate use case for it?
- tyingq 9y agoIt's just spoofing caller ID. Caller ID has no verification or security around it, other than what a provider might optionally choose to put in place. Here's how to do it with the open source asterisk pbx: http://allanfeid.com/content/caller-id-spoofing-w-asterisk http://allanfeid.com/content/caller-id-spoofing-w-asterisk Or, just find a cheap VoIP provider that doesn't verify control of a number before allowing it to be used as CID. Voip.ms lets you spoof CID right from their web based config: https://wiki.voip.ms/article/Caller_ID https://wiki.voip.ms/article/Caller_ID The legit use cases are where you spoof a different number that's still your number. Like your landline presenting your cell number. Or a business presenting the main number for all phones.
- jjeaff 9y agoTo add to the other response you got, yes, it's illegal. The specific federal code that it breaks is in the article.
- mderazon 9y agoThe best solution imo is to block any call from a number that is not on your contact list and direct all other people that need to reach you to email. Your friends and family can still reach you and legit people who need to reach you can still reach you via email. Email spam filters are much better at blocking unwanted traffic. It's far from ideal, and people might give up and not try to pursue getting to you but the situation with robocalls has got so much out of hand that drastic measures are needed.
- jjeaff 9y agoRather than go that drastic, you could simply get one of those answering service apps that require the user to announce themselves and press 1 to get through. You can set that functionality to only happen for numbers not in your phone book.
- mderazon 9y agoHow about CAPTCHA for unknown calls - numbers not in your contact list will be required to answer something only a human is capable of answering before getting through to you. Or another approach that Google does with Google Voice is to ask the caller to identify before the call goes through. Then the phone rings on your side and you hear the name of the caller before you decide to answer.
- thomastruett 9y agoI'm working with a friend to build this. You can sign up to beta test at https://quitcalling.us https://quitcalling.us. You can also text a telemarketer's number to 865.407.2730 and our system will file a complaint with the FTC on your behalf.
- rhizome 9y agoDo you know that these callers will spoof numbers that don't belong to them? Filing a complaint based on them can be effectively a Joe Job.
- leesalminen 9y agoI think this is a great idea! Good luck!
- duskwuff 9y agoThis is only effective against the relatively honest telemarketers that use correct Caller ID information. The really bad ones, like the one involved in this article, use spoofed Caller ID -- reporting them to the FTC is a waste of time for everyone involved.
- MichaelGG 9y agoIt wouldn't be if anyone actually followed through on the complaint. Each company knows who sent them the call, even if the caller ID is misleading. (Though you might have to keep digging though several companies to find the actual call sender.)
- 9y ago
- wbsun 9y agoActually I am wondering how much these companies can make by doing this so that they may be able to afford the $120M fine.
- arikr 9y agoAwesome. I think I was called by these guys, and I reported them to the FCC via Do Not Call Registry, which I'm on.
- guelo 9y agoI got hit by this several times a week for over a year and then it suddenly stopped a month ago. I was always confused how they were allowed to spoof phone numbers with my area code and first 3 digits.
- ableton 9y agoGreat, now I know who was kindly calling me several times a week on behalf of Marriott offering a "free hotel stay".
- finnn 9y agoWhen I get a call from a spoofed number, can my carrier tell which carrier sent them the call? After I started getting a lot of these, I called T-Mobile, who proceeded to be completely unhelpful and offered to block it based on the caller ID number, acting as if that would somehow help.
- MichaelGG 9y agoNot really. They'll know who immediately delivered it to them, but then need to get that company to reveal their customer. This chain may run several companies deep. I've seen a ton of these complaints come through. They're basically ignored or given a useless "that caller ID has been blocked" response just to say something was done. At the end of the day, sales wants these calls to keep flowing so they're not gonna get too hard on customers unless they're really abusing the betiejr (placing tons of no-answer or short-duration traffic).
- noobermin 9y agoI'm guessing they couldn't afford to lobby Ajit Pai.
- jessaustin 9y agoPerhaps they'll be comforted by this notion: his future lobbying efforts will be that much more effective when he mentions what a shame it would be to donate too little, like those poor robocallers did.
- Macrosmatic 9y agoI've quit answering any unknown calls due to this out of control robocall spam. At first I felt tinges of anxiety thinking that I might miss an important call, but that passed very quickly. Now I figure that if it's really important the interested party will find another way to reach me (email, sms) and I feel zero anxiety. It's an interesting change in behavior. I'd almost be willing to use an app that restricted calls to my address book plus a whitelisted group of vetted companies.
- jonthepirate 9y agoSame here. I would prefer if my phone did not ring unless the caller's number was in my address book.
- alsetmusic 9y agoThis is a copy and paste quote of a post from user 'nugget' about nine hours earlier. Looks like spam or thread manipulation.
- dredmorbius 9y agoSpecifically: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14625206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14625206
- coding123 9y agoThey should triple the fine.
- ajmurmann 9y agoHow is it that we haven't solved this yet the same way we solved email and blog spam? Why can't I mark a number as spam on my phone and if "enough" people do that the number will be automatically blocked. This could just beer implemented by a single phoned manufacturer and already have a significant impact. Not mentioning of one of the big ones like Apple did it.
- Fej 9y agoThe Google dialer already marks numbers as spam. If a call comes from a spam number, the dialer pop-up is red instead of green and says "Suspected spam call". There is also a "report not spam" button.
- ansgri 9y agoThe first time I've received a robocall here in Russia I was really amazed at the impudence: it's bad enough when a live person calls you, but when you get a robocall? Immediate blacklisting of the number and the brand. And when I'll get another one, I'll probably go out of my way to report to some agency. IMO this is nearly as bad as a stranger insulting you in the street: they're at least a live person taking your time.