4 ms·

I think that making semiconductors is unfortunately out of the reach of hobbyists. You'd have to grow purified crystals (or buy them), slice and polish them, et

I think that making semiconductors is unfortunately out of the reach of hobbyists. You'd have to grow purified crystals (or buy them), slice and polish them, etc. The various processes needed for lithography involve toxic chemicals too AFAIK. That being said, if you want to make your own large-scale CPU, you can still build one out of discrete 74-series logic, individual transistors, or relays. Takes a lot of dedication, but that is entirely within your reach. A fun example of a CPU built with discrete SMD transistors, the monster 6502 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQIwS2GzXLI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQIwS2GzXLI There's also the MegaProcessor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNa9bQRPMB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNa9bQRPMB8 Zusie relay computer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXeBR-lbnjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXeBR-lbnjI

frozenport 9y ago
Or you can make it in HDL and pay somebody to fab it
- chocolatebunny 9y ago
  So what's the cheapest fab in the world? Maybe I should just stick with FPGAs.
  - sbierwagen 9y ago
    Wikipedia says prototype runs are done MPW or MLM, with many different chips printed on a single wafer. Nobody quotes actual prices, of course, so guess "a lot" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service
  - mavendependency 9y ago
    https://youtu.be/Pt9i2ABe_mE https://youtu.be/Pt9i2ABe_mE http://ifdl.jp/make_lsi/ http://ifdl.jp/make_lsi/ http://hackaday.com/2016/10/13/blinking-an-led-extreme-edition/ http://hackaday.com/2016/10/13/blinking-an-led-extreme-editi... http://www.slideshare.net/junichiakita9/intorudction-to-makelsi http://www.slideshare.net/junichiakita9/intorudction-to-make... There some projects to realize low-cost, short turn-around-time LSI fabrication at slightly old process, such as 1um, in Japan, whose name is Minimal Fab. This will enable the (commercial) LSI fabrication service at a few hundred USD cost and 1-week TAT. I believe this a revolution similar to that happened in PCB world in ten years ago.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - frozenport 9y ago
    FPGA conversion has a 50k nre. Anything else and you need a team of people on your end to do things like verify quality. The fun part is that you can sometimes sneak an trial design into a shuttle service. ( but good luck making that initial design!)
  - nickpsecurity 9y ago
    These do multi-project wafers (aka shuttle runs): https://www.mosis.com/ https://www.mosis.com/ http://www.europractice-ic.com/ http://www.europractice-ic.com/
ori_b 9y ago
My curriculum in school involved creating our own integrated circuits on wafers. There are lots of nasty chemicals involved, but it's not out of the reach of a dedicated hobbyist. The biggest challenge is ion implant, which you can probably outsource to a lab.
russdill 9y ago
No worries, I heard this guy on an electronics podcast predicting that we'd all have chip printers. It's only a matter of time…right?
- ant6n 9y ago
  Startup idea!
agumonkey 9y ago
A guy on hackaday.io ygdes IIRC (https://hackaday.io/whygee https://hackaday.io/whygee) does a lot of these, even changing designs (somehow having async memory access at the arch level) IIUC he worked in the cpu business in the past but is too idealist to enjoy doing it now.

frozenport 9y ago

Or you can make it in HDL and pay somebody to fab it

chocolatebunny 9y ago
So what's the cheapest fab in the world? Maybe I should just stick with FPGAs.
- sbierwagen 9y ago
  Wikipedia says prototype runs are done MPW or MLM, with many different chips printed on a single wafer. Nobody quotes actual prices, of course, so guess "a lot" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-project_wafer_service
- mavendependency 9y ago
  https://youtu.be/Pt9i2ABe_mE https://youtu.be/Pt9i2ABe_mE http://ifdl.jp/make_lsi/ http://ifdl.jp/make_lsi/ http://hackaday.com/2016/10/13/blinking-an-led-extreme-edition/ http://hackaday.com/2016/10/13/blinking-an-led-extreme-editi... http://www.slideshare.net/junichiakita9/intorudction-to-makelsi http://www.slideshare.net/junichiakita9/intorudction-to-make... There some projects to realize low-cost, short turn-around-time LSI fabrication at slightly old process, such as 1um, in Japan, whose name is Minimal Fab. This will enable the (commercial) LSI fabrication service at a few hundred USD cost and 1-week TAT. I believe this a revolution similar to that happened in PCB world in ten years ago.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- frozenport 9y ago
  FPGA conversion has a 50k nre. Anything else and you need a team of people on your end to do things like verify quality. The fun part is that you can sometimes sneak an trial design into a shuttle service. ( but good luck making that initial design!)
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  These do multi-project wafers (aka shuttle runs): https://www.mosis.com/ https://www.mosis.com/ http://www.europractice-ic.com/ http://www.europractice-ic.com/

ori_b 9y ago

My curriculum in school involved creating our own integrated circuits on wafers. There are lots of nasty chemicals involved, but it's not out of the reach of a dedicated hobbyist. The biggest challenge is ion implant, which you can probably outsource to a lab.

russdill 9y ago

No worries, I heard this guy on an electronics podcast predicting that we'd all have chip printers. It's only a matter of time…right?

ant6n 9y ago
Startup idea!

agumonkey 9y ago

A guy on hackaday.io ygdes IIRC (https://hackaday.io/whygee https://hackaday.io/whygee) does a lot of these, even changing designs (somehow having async memory access at the arch level) IIUC he worked in the cpu business in the past but is too idealist to enjoy doing it now.