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> But honestly, there is an expectation of some level of competency/knowledge when trying to "claim" a hobby, because people consider a hobby as something you i

> But honestly, there is an expectation of some level of competency/knowledge when trying to "claim" a hobby, because people consider a hobby as something you involve yourself in at more than a surface level. No. In fact, the very definition of a hobby refutes this. A hobby is purely anything you have taken interest in for mere pleasure or to fill leisure time. Hobby's synonyms are pastime, leisurely activity, leisurely pursuit, etc. There should be no expectation of mastery. Now if I said I am a piano practitioner, I would assume some knowledge. > If someone tells me that they like to play a musical instrument - I'd first gauge [...] And this list of criteria you gauge will vary from person to person, and interviewer to interviewer, which is exactly why approving/rejecting candidates based on their hobbies is unreliable at best. By the way, your listed criteria of what someone being a musician is would exclude Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Paul McCartney, Kurt Vile, Tony Williams, Danny Elfman, Eric Clapton and Tom Morello, just to name a few.

Nadya 9y ago
>In fact, the very definition of a hobby refutes this I don't care much for definitions - because dictionaries are often years or decades behind how words are literally used. In this case it's a matter of breaking expectation - and not because the statement is "wrong". The statement would be correct but goes against what people are expecting when they ask such a question. If someone were to tell you "My hobby is drawing." what do you first imagine? Perhaps not hyper realistic graphite drawings but you're probably imagining something with at least a mediocre level of talent. Decent proportions, an understanding of depth, at least the basics! How surprised would you be if they showed you a bunch of crudely drawn stick figures that look like a three year old drew them? Would you think they were pulling a joke on you? If someone says "I'm a programmer" would it break your expectations to find out that they can only write `=SUM(A2:B2)` into an Excel spreadsheet? How many people do you think would disagree that they are "a programmer" if that is the extent of their programming talent? Do you think that would be a majority of people or a minority of people? If someone put on their resume that they had 8 years of programming experience and failed to mention that it was only with Excel functions would you count that against them when hiring them? Would you consider it manipulative or shady? It's the equivalent of saying "I handle financial transactions for a multi-billion dollar company." when you're a cashier at McDonalds. Factually correct, but you better only be saying it in jest or you would be considered a manipulative asshole. By the way, my listed criteria did not exclude them. The first judgement is one of ability - all of them would pass as musicians by that alone.
- treehau5 9y ago
  > I don't care much for definitions - because dictionaries are often years or decades behind how words are literally used. I don't care that you don't care for definitions. Words have meaning, whether you care about them or not. The whole premise of your anecdotes are based upon your experience and the way your brain operates. That's the definition of bias. That's the reason why dismissing someone based upon your perceived lack of mastery of their hobby, something by definition is something someone does just for fun, is horrible for any sort of hiring needs or purposes. Telling me "I do this as a hobby" and "I am this" are two completely different statements.
  - Nadya 9y ago
    >I don't care that you don't care for definitions. Words have meaning, whether you care about them or not. Words literally have definitions that change over time, in context, from different groups of people, in different regions, and literally sometimes don't literally mean what is literally written in a dictionary. Pointing to a dictionary and saying "This is what this word means" is completely ignoring how communication works unless you're trying to get two people to agree upon a definition of a word. The only good a dictionary is for is saying "This is the definition of the word I am using." Neat. I'll stick with the way everyone around me uses the word, dictionary be damned. >Telling me "I do this as a hobby" and "I am this" are two completely different statements. The implications of the statement matters. >It's the equivalent of saying "I handle financial transactions for a multi-billion dollar company." when you're a cashier at McDonalds.

Nadya 9y ago

>In fact, the very definition of a hobby refutes this I don't care much for definitions - because dictionaries are often years or decades behind how words are literally used. In this case it's a matter of breaking expectation - and not because the statement is "wrong". The statement would be correct but goes against what people are expecting when they ask such a question. If someone were to tell you "My hobby is drawing." what do you first imagine? Perhaps not hyper realistic graphite drawings but you're probably imagining something with at least a mediocre level of talent. Decent proportions, an understanding of depth, at least the basics! How surprised would you be if they showed you a bunch of crudely drawn stick figures that look like a three year old drew them? Would you think they were pulling a joke on you? If someone says "I'm a programmer" would it break your expectations to find out that they can only write `=SUM(A2:B2)` into an Excel spreadsheet? How many people do you think would disagree that they are "a programmer" if that is the extent of their programming talent? Do you think that would be a majority of people or a minority of people? If someone put on their resume that they had 8 years of programming experience and failed to mention that it was only with Excel functions would you count that against them when hiring them? Would you consider it manipulative or shady? It's the equivalent of saying "I handle financial transactions for a multi-billion dollar company." when you're a cashier at McDonalds. Factually correct, but you better only be saying it in jest or you would be considered a manipulative asshole. By the way, my listed criteria did not exclude them. The first judgement is one of ability - all of them would pass as musicians by that alone.

treehau5 9y ago
> I don't care much for definitions - because dictionaries are often years or decades behind how words are literally used. I don't care that you don't care for definitions. Words have meaning, whether you care about them or not. The whole premise of your anecdotes are based upon your experience and the way your brain operates. That's the definition of bias. That's the reason why dismissing someone based upon your perceived lack of mastery of their hobby, something by definition is something someone does just for fun, is horrible for any sort of hiring needs or purposes. Telling me "I do this as a hobby" and "I am this" are two completely different statements.
- Nadya 9y ago
  >I don't care that you don't care for definitions. Words have meaning, whether you care about them or not. Words literally have definitions that change over time, in context, from different groups of people, in different regions, and literally sometimes don't literally mean what is literally written in a dictionary. Pointing to a dictionary and saying "This is what this word means" is completely ignoring how communication works unless you're trying to get two people to agree upon a definition of a word. The only good a dictionary is for is saying "This is the definition of the word I am using." Neat. I'll stick with the way everyone around me uses the word, dictionary be damned. >Telling me "I do this as a hobby" and "I am this" are two completely different statements. The implications of the statement matters. >It's the equivalent of saying "I handle financial transactions for a multi-billion dollar company." when you're a cashier at McDonalds.