4 ms·

Everybody was already Han and Han-dominated thousands of years ago? Really? Tibet was never invaded in the fifties? Cool! There never was an attempted invasion

Everybody was already Han and Han-dominated thousands of years ago? Really? Tibet was never invaded in the fifties? Cool! There never was an attempted invasion of Japan, foiled by disastrous weather? Wow. This is a whole alternative reality. Fact is, China's history is very similar to everyone else's history.

thaumasiotes 9y ago
There was never an attempted invasion of Japan by the Han. Nor was there an invasion of Tibet. Tibet, and Xinjiang, were invaded by the Manchus (who ruled China as the Qing dynasty at the same time they ruled several other jurisdictions under different names. Everything was later relabeled "China" as essentially an accounting gimmick). Japan was invaded by the Mongols (who, similarly, ruled China as the Yuan dynasty). Han aggression has been pretty much limited to Vietnam (and ineffective there). Blaming China for the invasion of Tibet is slightly less ridiculous than blaming Nazi-occupied France for the invasion of Poland.
- kgwgk 9y ago
  I don't get the last analogy. Blaming Nazi-occupied France for the invasion of Poland in September 1939 is quite ridiculous, given that France was occupied in June 1940. I don't know much about the China/Nepal case, but a quick google search got me https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamdo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamdo
  - thaumasiotes 9y ago
    Yes, the chronology of that analogy is wrong, which is why I said that claim would be slightly more ridiculous. But the agency part of it is correct. The Manchus had no more interest in Chinese opinions of what they should and shouldn't attack than the Germans had in French opinions.
    - kgwgk 9y ago
      Did the Manchus invaded Tibet in 1950?
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  The Chinese fleet was a Chinese fleet. Of course, China wasn't under Han leadership, but yes, it was China. You're ruled by those you are ruled by and it's strange to equate Chinese citizenship just with the Han, who didn't magically come to be spread over such a large territory, they conquered it. Re Tibet - you think Mao was a foreigner, or just someone who was too strange to be counted as Chinese either?

thaumasiotes 9y ago

There was never an attempted invasion of Japan by the Han. Nor was there an invasion of Tibet. Tibet, and Xinjiang, were invaded by the Manchus (who ruled China as the Qing dynasty at the same time they ruled several other jurisdictions under different names. Everything was later relabeled "China" as essentially an accounting gimmick). Japan was invaded by the Mongols (who, similarly, ruled China as the Yuan dynasty). Han aggression has been pretty much limited to Vietnam (and ineffective there). Blaming China for the invasion of Tibet is slightly less ridiculous than blaming Nazi-occupied France for the invasion of Poland.

kgwgk 9y ago
I don't get the last analogy. Blaming Nazi-occupied France for the invasion of Poland in September 1939 is quite ridiculous, given that France was occupied in June 1940. I don't know much about the China/Nepal case, but a quick google search got me https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamdo https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamdo
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  Yes, the chronology of that analogy is wrong, which is why I said that claim would be slightly more ridiculous. But the agency part of it is correct. The Manchus had no more interest in Chinese opinions of what they should and shouldn't attack than the Germans had in French opinions.
  - kgwgk 9y ago
    Did the Manchus invaded Tibet in 1950?
Nomentatus 9y ago
The Chinese fleet was a Chinese fleet. Of course, China wasn't under Han leadership, but yes, it was China. You're ruled by those you are ruled by and it's strange to equate Chinese citizenship just with the Han, who didn't magically come to be spread over such a large territory, they conquered it. Re Tibet - you think Mao was a foreigner, or just someone who was too strange to be counted as Chinese either?