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> free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny More important is the enlightened citizens. You can name all sorts of intelligent ways to be t

> free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny More important is the enlightened citizens. You can name all sorts of intelligent ways to be the only safeguard against tyranny. In the end of day, if you are less intelligent and knowledgeable than the privileged few, no matter what you do, you'll be managed.

hd4 9y ago
>intelligent and knowledgeable than the privileged few the only way to become intelligent and knowledgeable is to have free and easy access to information.
- mperham 9y ago
  > is to have free and easy access to __accurate__ information. As we've learned recently, politicized or partisan info ("fake news") can flood and disrupt our decision-making.
  - LiweiZ 9y ago
    But the GP's comment is still valid since that's the foundation of everything to build upon. Or things will go way worse.
    - cinquemb 9y ago
      If history is any example, it often takes things getting way worse in order to even build a foundation for better things to come.
      - LiweiZ 9y ago
        Right, but you only mentioned half of the story. Eventually, the foundation is something you simply have to have for all wanted things above it. The way worse is a potential part of the process, not the final outcome. So it seems we all agree on what is the foundation that can not be ignored here;)
        cinquemb 9y ago
        Not all species get to survive the thing that ails them. We might agree on the foundation, but disagree on how "potential" the worse part will be on the way to the "final outcome". The implications of such seem to be in conflict with how most people wish to live.
        LiweiZ 9y ago
        Well, I'm fully aware of this. You can look at another comment I left under this topic. Most of wishes are not realized. My original reply was trying to oppose the parent's dismiss of the importance of the foundation. I lived in a society painted by a lot more fake/manipulated/restricted information till I were 30. So people from better systems would easily underestimate its real effect (and I know it's hard to really get it). People usually focus on things short-term and close by and take the macro surroundings for granted.
        cinquemb 9y ago
        Completely missed that post! I don't know if I would even try to frame having such a foundation as needing hope. I think that the means to have information accessible easily are increasingly upon us if not here already (commodification of hardware/software, incentives for orgs/people to collect/sample/leverage data from such, with all the messy details that come into existence because of such), whether the few or masses like it or not (or choose to become distracted by some forms of it instead of using it to pursue some greater means), its only becoming more pervasive. Not going to really comment on accurate or not, since the value of such is dependent on what it can be use for (which is not always in a known state of <good| or |bad>, or rather often in the superposition of such where we only can see some magnitude of the combination: <good|bad>); Even "accurate" information could be relatively meaningless for achieving some ends. All of this is undeniably changing the power dynamics everywhere. Government's and entrenched orgs will do all that they can to mask/veil what is going on (if they cannot adapt), but ultimately it will be futile. Many of us may die in the meantime (as has always been the case). But as relatively technical individual (and US pseudo-expat), its kind of freeing to being able to pit n number of different nations/transnational organizations polices/diktats agaisnt each other and exploit/live in the loopholes without resorting to overt technical subversion. Though plenty of media content on what the latter could look like ;)
LiweiZ 9y ago
This is the exact reason many Chinese don't think we Chinese in mainland could have democracy. I guess there are more people think that way than a decade earlier. Because middle and upper class there are really enjoying the party, and most of the rest are trying their best to rush to the party. I believe it's not a question of chicken and egg. It's all about part of the system starts to be able to have the environment to support the iteration of new generations better prepared for that (Not sure it has to be democracy, I don't believe it's foundation for many good things, but at least some system people are more fairly treated.). However, given rulers are fully aware of this and how the system is currently structured, there is no way to have this kind of thing even in just a tiny part of the system. The best chance is after the collapse of it, but people would suffer and there is no guarantee it would emerge, spread and prevail. And my life span is too short. So there is no real hope for this.

hd4 9y ago

>intelligent and knowledgeable than the privileged few the only way to become intelligent and knowledgeable is to have free and easy access to information.

mperham 9y ago
> is to have free and easy access to __accurate__ information. As we've learned recently, politicized or partisan info ("fake news") can flood and disrupt our decision-making.
- LiweiZ 9y ago
  But the GP's comment is still valid since that's the foundation of everything to build upon. Or things will go way worse.
  - cinquemb 9y ago
    If history is any example, it often takes things getting way worse in order to even build a foundation for better things to come.
    - LiweiZ 9y ago
      Right, but you only mentioned half of the story. Eventually, the foundation is something you simply have to have for all wanted things above it. The way worse is a potential part of the process, not the final outcome. So it seems we all agree on what is the foundation that can not be ignored here;)
      - cinquemb 9y ago
        Not all species get to survive the thing that ails them. We might agree on the foundation, but disagree on how "potential" the worse part will be on the way to the "final outcome". The implications of such seem to be in conflict with how most people wish to live.
        LiweiZ 9y ago
        Well, I'm fully aware of this. You can look at another comment I left under this topic. Most of wishes are not realized. My original reply was trying to oppose the parent's dismiss of the importance of the foundation. I lived in a society painted by a lot more fake/manipulated/restricted information till I were 30. So people from better systems would easily underestimate its real effect (and I know it's hard to really get it). People usually focus on things short-term and close by and take the macro surroundings for granted.
        cinquemb 9y ago
        Completely missed that post! I don't know if I would even try to frame having such a foundation as needing hope. I think that the means to have information accessible easily are increasingly upon us if not here already (commodification of hardware/software, incentives for orgs/people to collect/sample/leverage data from such, with all the messy details that come into existence because of such), whether the few or masses like it or not (or choose to become distracted by some forms of it instead of using it to pursue some greater means), its only becoming more pervasive. Not going to really comment on accurate or not, since the value of such is dependent on what it can be use for (which is not always in a known state of <good| or |bad>, or rather often in the superposition of such where we only can see some magnitude of the combination: <good|bad>); Even "accurate" information could be relatively meaningless for achieving some ends. All of this is undeniably changing the power dynamics everywhere. Government's and entrenched orgs will do all that they can to mask/veil what is going on (if they cannot adapt), but ultimately it will be futile. Many of us may die in the meantime (as has always been the case). But as relatively technical individual (and US pseudo-expat), its kind of freeing to being able to pit n number of different nations/transnational organizations polices/diktats agaisnt each other and exploit/live in the loopholes without resorting to overt technical subversion. Though plenty of media content on what the latter could look like ;)

LiweiZ 9y ago

This is the exact reason many Chinese don't think we Chinese in mainland could have democracy. I guess there are more people think that way than a decade earlier. Because middle and upper class there are really enjoying the party, and most of the rest are trying their best to rush to the party. I believe it's not a question of chicken and egg. It's all about part of the system starts to be able to have the environment to support the iteration of new generations better prepared for that (Not sure it has to be democracy, I don't believe it's foundation for many good things, but at least some system people are more fairly treated.). However, given rulers are fully aware of this and how the system is currently structured, there is no way to have this kind of thing even in just a tiny part of the system. The best chance is after the collapse of it, but people would suffer and there is no guarantee it would emerge, spread and prevail. And my life span is too short. So there is no real hope for this.