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Define 'trustworthy'. Protonmail are now offering ProtonVPN free tier and paid subscriptions for higher speeds. Under Swiss law they are now required to store l

Define 'trustworthy'. Protonmail are now offering ProtonVPN free tier and paid subscriptions for higher speeds. Under Swiss law they are now required to store logs. The only trustworthy solution is your own OpenVPN server on some cloud provider (not difficult to setup). Even then it is debatable whether it would remain private long. Probably draw attention if anything but you won't get your logs sold to Target. It's hilarious how many 'VPN providers' don't even encrypt the traffic.

ryanlol 9y ago
Not OpenVPN, use Algo or soon wireguard. ¹: https://github.com/trailofbits/algo https://github.com/trailofbits/algo
- nthcolumn 9y ago
  True enough - vulns disclosed quite recently, I have to admit though Algo makes me uneasy. OTOH openvpn is quite long in the tooth and has many contributors.
  - apta 9y ago
    Out of curiosity, what about algo that makes you uneasy?
Ajedi32 9y ago
> Under Swiss law they are now required to store logs. Source? Their website [claims][1] they don't store logs. > ProtonVPN is a no logs VPN service. We do not track or record your internet activity, and therefore, we are unable to disclose this information to third parties. [1]: https://protonvpn.com/ https://protonvpn.com/
- marcopol 9y ago
  Yes, they don't. Check their statement on the new Swiss law here: https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/ https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/
  - nthcolumn 9y ago
    They are definitely storing logs now. Where does it say in their statement that they won't be storing logs? This is about secure email.
marcopol 9y ago
Actually, they are not. They are excepted from the law as they are not big telecommunications providers in Switzerland. ProtonVPN is not storing logs and you can see the 2017 update on their blog here: https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/ https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/ Below snip from blog: "In the months since the law was first introduced, we have had repeated contact with the Swiss government and held a meeting at our office together with legal counsel and members of the PTSS. In our meetings, we discussed the practical challenges of implementing such a law, and helped to advise policy makers on the most sensible implementation. We appreciate that the Swiss government has recognized the leading role that Proton Technologies AG plays in developing the cybersecurity tools of the future, along with the role that we play in the economic re-orientation of Geneva, and Switzerland as a whole towards the high tech sector, and sought a meeting with us to discuss how to ensure both security and privacy in the digital age. As a participant in these discussions, we can confirm unequivocally that upon implementation, the provisions regarding data retention introduced by the BÜPF will exempt companies like ProtonMail and ProtonVPN which are not major telecommunications operators. This is in addition to the points in the article below, which still hold."
sigjuice 9y ago
Running your own OpenVPN server just means that you are trading one ISP for another :/

ryanlol 9y ago

Not OpenVPN, use Algo or soon wireguard. ¹: https://github.com/trailofbits/algo https://github.com/trailofbits/algo

nthcolumn 9y ago
True enough - vulns disclosed quite recently, I have to admit though Algo makes me uneasy. OTOH openvpn is quite long in the tooth and has many contributors.
- apta 9y ago
  Out of curiosity, what about algo that makes you uneasy?

Ajedi32 9y ago

> Under Swiss law they are now required to store logs. Source? Their website [claims][1] they don't store logs. > ProtonVPN is a no logs VPN service. We do not track or record your internet activity, and therefore, we are unable to disclose this information to third parties. [1]: https://protonvpn.com/ https://protonvpn.com/

marcopol 9y ago
Yes, they don't. Check their statement on the new Swiss law here: https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/ https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/
- nthcolumn 9y ago
  They are definitely storing logs now. Where does it say in their statement that they won't be storing logs? This is about secure email.

marcopol 9y ago

Actually, they are not. They are excepted from the law as they are not big telecommunications providers in Switzerland. ProtonVPN is not storing logs and you can see the 2017 update on their blog here: https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/ https://protonmail.com/blog/swiss-surveillance-law/ Below snip from blog: "In the months since the law was first introduced, we have had repeated contact with the Swiss government and held a meeting at our office together with legal counsel and members of the PTSS. In our meetings, we discussed the practical challenges of implementing such a law, and helped to advise policy makers on the most sensible implementation. We appreciate that the Swiss government has recognized the leading role that Proton Technologies AG plays in developing the cybersecurity tools of the future, along with the role that we play in the economic re-orientation of Geneva, and Switzerland as a whole towards the high tech sector, and sought a meeting with us to discuss how to ensure both security and privacy in the digital age. As a participant in these discussions, we can confirm unequivocally that upon implementation, the provisions regarding data retention introduced by the BÜPF will exempt companies like ProtonMail and ProtonVPN which are not major telecommunications operators. This is in addition to the points in the article below, which still hold."

sigjuice 9y ago

Running your own OpenVPN server just means that you are trading one ISP for another :/