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> China simply does not have the consistent history of far-reaching imperialism that other historic empires like Britain or America have. There is also an absen

> China simply does not have the consistent history of far-reaching imperialism that other historic empires like Britain or America have. There is also an absence of an enlightened ideology of imperialism, which the aforementioned British and American empires used to justify mass conquest and genocide. China invaded its neighbors on multiple occasions. It was the failure of its imperial ambitions that resulted in it turning inward. Or does the likes of Korea and such simply not count in your mind? China also became "China" after invading neighboring kingdoms. China simply was never in a position to expand substantially beyond its current borders due to technological limitations and the superiority of its neighbors' military. Pretending it is some virtuous position is categorically false and you can see that in the way they look the other way when working with African dictators, etc. and making all the "moral compromises" the American Empire has.

smilekzs 9y ago
> China also became "China" after invading neighboring kingdoms. More like what has always been considered "China" got taken over by the Kidan, then the Monguls, then the Manchus, each time forcefully, but then slowly emerging as a "More Unified China", rinse and repeat.
- fweespeech 9y ago
  > More like what has always been considered "China" got taken over by the Kidan, then the Monguls, then the Manchus, each time forcefully, but then slowly emerging as a "More Unified China", rinse and repeat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period > The Warring States period (Chinese: 戰國時代; pinyin: Zhànguó shídài) was an era in ancient Chinese history following the Spring and Autumn period and concluding with the Qin wars of conquest that saw the annexation of all other contender states, which ultimately led to the Qin state's victory in 221 BC as the first unified Chinese empire known as the Qin dynasty. What historical event created the first unified Chinese empire in your alternate view of world history?
  - thaumasiotes 9y ago
    The warring states were all part of a more-or-less unified preexisting Chinese culture, sharing sacred objects, rites, language, etc. It's not ridiculous to see the quest to take control of China as a different sort of thing from the quest to take control of foreigners. If you believe the analysis in https://www.amazon.com/Early-Chinese-Empires-History-Imperial/dp/0674057341/ https://www.amazon.com/Early-Chinese-Empires-History-Imperia... , the Qin dynasty immediately flamed out because its institutions just didn't work in peacetime, and the Han dynasty had to develop practices more suited to a stable empire.
    - fweespeech 9y ago
      > The warring states were all part of a more-or-less unified preexisting Chinese culture, sharing sacred objects, rites, language, etc. It's not ridiculous to see the quest to take control of China as a different sort of thing from the quest to take control of foreigners. We share a more-or-less unified culture with Canada. Do you feel the US invading them isn't a quest to take control of foreigners? I'm asking these questions because its genuinely a foreign concept to me that these things are not imperialistic quests of conquest. I understand people have different point of views and so I'm trying to understand what the justification is. Due to rate limiting, I'll edit: > If communications technology broke down and the United States fractured into 5 different states, would you be surprised if most military efforts went into taking over other regions of the former US rather than Canada or Mexico? That isn't the same as the warring states since that was the first proper unification of China as an empire. Up until that point in history, it wasn't unified in the sense the US is. I also would consider attempting to recover those regions an act of imperial aggression. > If they were eventually reunified after hundreds of years of fighting each other while having displayed no urge to invade Mexico, and subsequently spent several more centuries not invading Mexico while denigrating militarism and soldiers generally, why would you start worrying for Mexico? China invaded Korea (China's Mexico). So I'm not sure where you are going with that given that is a historical falsehood when it comes to analogies. Similarly, when you are refusing to acknowledge the territorial claims of your neighbors like China is in the South China Sea to the point you are taking military actions

smilekzs 9y ago

> China also became "China" after invading neighboring kingdoms. More like what has always been considered "China" got taken over by the Kidan, then the Monguls, then the Manchus, each time forcefully, but then slowly emerging as a "More Unified China", rinse and repeat.

fweespeech 9y ago
> More like what has always been considered "China" got taken over by the Kidan, then the Monguls, then the Manchus, each time forcefully, but then slowly emerging as a "More Unified China", rinse and repeat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period > The Warring States period (Chinese: 戰國時代; pinyin: Zhànguó shídài) was an era in ancient Chinese history following the Spring and Autumn period and concluding with the Qin wars of conquest that saw the annexation of all other contender states, which ultimately led to the Qin state's victory in 221 BC as the first unified Chinese empire known as the Qin dynasty. What historical event created the first unified Chinese empire in your alternate view of world history?
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  The warring states were all part of a more-or-less unified preexisting Chinese culture, sharing sacred objects, rites, language, etc. It's not ridiculous to see the quest to take control of China as a different sort of thing from the quest to take control of foreigners. If you believe the analysis in https://www.amazon.com/Early-Chinese-Empires-History-Imperial/dp/0674057341/ https://www.amazon.com/Early-Chinese-Empires-History-Imperia... , the Qin dynasty immediately flamed out because its institutions just didn't work in peacetime, and the Han dynasty had to develop practices more suited to a stable empire.
  - fweespeech 9y ago
    > The warring states were all part of a more-or-less unified preexisting Chinese culture, sharing sacred objects, rites, language, etc. It's not ridiculous to see the quest to take control of China as a different sort of thing from the quest to take control of foreigners. We share a more-or-less unified culture with Canada. Do you feel the US invading them isn't a quest to take control of foreigners? I'm asking these questions because its genuinely a foreign concept to me that these things are not imperialistic quests of conquest. I understand people have different point of views and so I'm trying to understand what the justification is. Due to rate limiting, I'll edit: > If communications technology broke down and the United States fractured into 5 different states, would you be surprised if most military efforts went into taking over other regions of the former US rather than Canada or Mexico? That isn't the same as the warring states since that was the first proper unification of China as an empire. Up until that point in history, it wasn't unified in the sense the US is. I also would consider attempting to recover those regions an act of imperial aggression. > If they were eventually reunified after hundreds of years of fighting each other while having displayed no urge to invade Mexico, and subsequently spent several more centuries not invading Mexico while denigrating militarism and soldiers generally, why would you start worrying for Mexico? China invaded Korea (China's Mexico). So I'm not sure where you are going with that given that is a historical falsehood when it comes to analogies. Similarly, when you are refusing to acknowledge the territorial claims of your neighbors like China is in the South China Sea to the point you are taking military actions