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> All of them, except web pages. This is just factually untrue. Mobile, desktop, data analysis, machine learning and even games : neither are primarily develop

> All of them, except web pages. This is just factually untrue. Mobile, desktop, data analysis, machine learning and even games : neither are primarily developed with C++ these days. I imagine you're going to respond with snark about how game engines are written with Cpp, or mention some edge case where a CLR / JVM language needs to call out to native libraries - but there's no escaping the fact it's a niche skill set and one of rapidly diminishing importance to the overwhelming majority of developers.

dom0 9y ago
> Mobile development Android NDK, Objective-C++, ... > desktop applications There are plenty of applications written in C++, from legacy code bases like MS Office to almost all content-creation tools ever, most applications whose abbreviations contain "computer aided", many libraries, and boatloads of applications. Like I said, C++ is used practically everywhere. Most applications developed on Qt are C++ (some Python). Qt itself has already a large user base. > data analysis From matlab to gnuplot, oscilloscope and spectrum analyser software, data analysis applications are frequently developed using C++. > machine learning On many repositories I can rather clearly see a broad pink bar, e.g. https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-learning+&type=Repositories https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-l... https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow - If some proprietary application is not obviously written in .NET or Java, C++ is a safe bet.
- doktrin 9y ago
  > Android NDK, Objective-C++ Those toolkits are only useful for edge cases. SDK performance is adequate for 95% of real world applications. > From matlab to gnuplot, oscilloscope and spectrum analyser software, data analysis applications are frequently developed using C++. I.e tools that don't need to be re-implemented, some of which had they been built today could easily have been written with a bytecode / JVM / CLR language. > On many repositories I can rather clearly see a broad pink bar, e.g. https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-l https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-l In your own link C++ ends up in a distant 6th place. What is that supposed to prove? That it's more popular than JavaScript in ML development? > https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow Another tool I'm not re-implementing. You conveniently left out that all of their models are developed with Python - which is what 99.99% of developers interested in ML are trying to do.
  - psyc 9y ago
    My problem with your line of argument in this whole subthread is that no matter how many examples people give you of important categories where C++ predominates, you've already decided that the sum total of all that is "niche".
    - doktrin 9y ago
      This subthread did in fact become and argument, and now it's a witch hunt that inspires nothing but deep hatred and loathing. Some comments have been helpful, and others have been shitty. I've only responded to the shitty ones. What I really wanted to know was what can I use C++ for as an individual developer. Maybe I should have been more explicit in my original question, but ultimately the answer is that there's nothing I can do with C++ that I couldn't do better with another language - short of joining a large dev team to build or maintain a large legacy codebase. However, I no longer care about my original question and am just as happy to see this community burn. So it goes.
      - pvaibhav2 9y ago
        I'm interesting in your background: which languages do you use, and what kind of programs do you write? Perhaps it'll become clearer whether C++ is any use to you or not. From the discussion I've read in this thread so far, it seems like you're claiming "what's the point of the entire field of mechanical engineering" when you, personally, just want to drive a car (not build one), fly on a plane (not build one) and so on.
        doktrin 9y ago
        > I'm interesting in your background: which languages do you use Scala, Java, C#, Obj-C / Swift, Python, JS. > what kind of programs do you write? At work : line of business, database / search / indexing systems, mobile apps, web apps At home : mobile apps, indie games > it seems like you're claiming "what's the point of the entire field of mechanical engineering" when you, personally, just want to drive a car (not build one), fly on a plane (not build one) and so on. You've misunderstood. What I'm claiming is that there are very few tasks at hobby-project scale that C++ is ideally suited for. C++ is a language that's used at team-scale, and is no longer an approachable language for the individual. In other words, with Java you can build Android apps, with C# you can build Unity games, with Python / JavaScript / Whatever you can build web apps. What can the individual do with C++ they couldn't do easier faster or better with some other language? Maybe embedded systems - but C seems just as effective for that domain. Likewise for kernel development for obvious reasons. I actually want a reason to use C++, but "well you can work on Photoshop or high performance computing or HFT plumbing software" is not a helpful answer - both for me and anyone else hoping to pick up Cpp in their spare time.
jhasse 9y ago
> and even games : neither are primarily developed with C++ these days. Unreal Engine uses C++, Unity's core is C++. DirectX is a C++ API. Install any game on Steam and you'll see the Visual C++ runtime being installed most of the time.
- doktrin 9y ago
  > I imagine you're going to respond with snark about how game engines are written with Cpp > Unreal Engine uses C++, Unity's core is C++. DirectX is a C++ API. I honestly think I addressed this. Most developers aren't trying to extend Unreal or Unity - they're building games with the aforementioned tools.
  - jhasse 9y ago
    At least in Unreal you can build your game in C++. But you're right that C++ is getting used less and less in games, but I would still say that it's the most used language, especially in AAA games.
deleted 9y ago
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dom0 9y ago

> Mobile development Android NDK, Objective-C++, ... > desktop applications There are plenty of applications written in C++, from legacy code bases like MS Office to almost all content-creation tools ever, most applications whose abbreviations contain "computer aided", many libraries, and boatloads of applications. Like I said, C++ is used practically everywhere. Most applications developed on Qt are C++ (some Python). Qt itself has already a large user base. > data analysis From matlab to gnuplot, oscilloscope and spectrum analyser software, data analysis applications are frequently developed using C++. > machine learning On many repositories I can rather clearly see a broad pink bar, e.g. https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-learning+&type=Repositories https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-l... https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow - If some proprietary application is not obviously written in .NET or Java, C++ is a safe bet.

doktrin 9y ago
> Android NDK, Objective-C++ Those toolkits are only useful for edge cases. SDK performance is adequate for 95% of real world applications. > From matlab to gnuplot, oscilloscope and spectrum analyser software, data analysis applications are frequently developed using C++. I.e tools that don't need to be re-implemented, some of which had they been built today could easily have been written with a bytecode / JVM / CLR language. > On many repositories I can rather clearly see a broad pink bar, e.g. https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-l https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=topic%3Amachine-l In your own link C++ ends up in a distant 6th place. What is that supposed to prove? That it's more popular than JavaScript in ML development? > https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow Another tool I'm not re-implementing. You conveniently left out that all of their models are developed with Python - which is what 99.99% of developers interested in ML are trying to do.
- psyc 9y ago
  My problem with your line of argument in this whole subthread is that no matter how many examples people give you of important categories where C++ predominates, you've already decided that the sum total of all that is "niche".
  - doktrin 9y ago
    This subthread did in fact become and argument, and now it's a witch hunt that inspires nothing but deep hatred and loathing. Some comments have been helpful, and others have been shitty. I've only responded to the shitty ones. What I really wanted to know was what can I use C++ for as an individual developer. Maybe I should have been more explicit in my original question, but ultimately the answer is that there's nothing I can do with C++ that I couldn't do better with another language - short of joining a large dev team to build or maintain a large legacy codebase. However, I no longer care about my original question and am just as happy to see this community burn. So it goes.
    - pvaibhav2 9y ago
      I'm interesting in your background: which languages do you use, and what kind of programs do you write? Perhaps it'll become clearer whether C++ is any use to you or not. From the discussion I've read in this thread so far, it seems like you're claiming "what's the point of the entire field of mechanical engineering" when you, personally, just want to drive a car (not build one), fly on a plane (not build one) and so on.
      - doktrin 9y ago
        > I'm interesting in your background: which languages do you use Scala, Java, C#, Obj-C / Swift, Python, JS. > what kind of programs do you write? At work : line of business, database / search / indexing systems, mobile apps, web apps At home : mobile apps, indie games > it seems like you're claiming "what's the point of the entire field of mechanical engineering" when you, personally, just want to drive a car (not build one), fly on a plane (not build one) and so on. You've misunderstood. What I'm claiming is that there are very few tasks at hobby-project scale that C++ is ideally suited for. C++ is a language that's used at team-scale, and is no longer an approachable language for the individual. In other words, with Java you can build Android apps, with C# you can build Unity games, with Python / JavaScript / Whatever you can build web apps. What can the individual do with C++ they couldn't do easier faster or better with some other language? Maybe embedded systems - but C seems just as effective for that domain. Likewise for kernel development for obvious reasons. I actually want a reason to use C++, but "well you can work on Photoshop or high performance computing or HFT plumbing software" is not a helpful answer - both for me and anyone else hoping to pick up Cpp in their spare time.

jhasse 9y ago

> and even games : neither are primarily developed with C++ these days. Unreal Engine uses C++, Unity's core is C++. DirectX is a C++ API. Install any game on Steam and you'll see the Visual C++ runtime being installed most of the time.

doktrin 9y ago
> I imagine you're going to respond with snark about how game engines are written with Cpp > Unreal Engine uses C++, Unity's core is C++. DirectX is a C++ API. I honestly think I addressed this. Most developers aren't trying to extend Unreal or Unity - they're building games with the aforementioned tools.
- jhasse 9y ago
  At least in Unreal you can build your game in C++. But you're right that C++ is getting used less and less in games, but I would still say that it's the most used language, especially in AAA games.

deleted 9y ago

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