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This always infuriated me. Cyclists are treated like second class citizens even when designing cycling infrastructure. Then we get yelled at for riding on the r

This always infuriated me. Cyclists are treated like second class citizens even when designing cycling infrastructure. Then we get yelled at for riding on the road. On top of this often the cycling lanes on the edge of main roads also double up as puncture hazards making it risky to use them.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
Why? It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Forklifts yield to service trucks. Service trucks yield to heavy equipment. Heavy equipment yields to bigger heavy equipment. Big heavy equipment yields to trains. Trains yield to ships.
- Nav_Panel 9y ago
  Cars yield to (much smaller) pedestrians, though. Clearly this model needs some work.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Depends where you are. The city in Asia where I am at the moment turning cars pretty clearly don't yield to pedestrians walk signs notwithstanding.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    Only in areas where pedestrians specifically are given the right of way (e.g. crosswalks). Outside of specific structured instances like that small yields to big. Of course if you just ignore that you don't have the right of way and just go people will slam on their brakes for you because that's the least costly option for dealing with the situation. It's like taking a left turn across traffic. Some people may stop and let you go if they deem it appropriate but the burden is on the you to turn when it is clear to do so, not on them to stop.
- allendoerfer 9y ago
  It is exactly the opposite in Germany. When you make turn on the road, pedestrians and cyclist have the right of way, even though they also will cross a road (the one you are turning into). It is the key principle in German traffic laws: You have to pay attention to what smaller and weaker vehicles are doing. Even when you are technically right, you can still be hold partially responsible for damages caused.
- antisthenes 9y ago
  > It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Such a principle, stripped of all disguise, is surely the mere primitive doctrine that might is right. Surely, we can do better.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

Why? It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Forklifts yield to service trucks. Service trucks yield to heavy equipment. Heavy equipment yields to bigger heavy equipment. Big heavy equipment yields to trains. Trains yield to ships.

Nav_Panel 9y ago
Cars yield to (much smaller) pedestrians, though. Clearly this model needs some work.
- ghaff 9y ago
  Depends where you are. The city in Asia where I am at the moment turning cars pretty clearly don't yield to pedestrians walk signs notwithstanding.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  Only in areas where pedestrians specifically are given the right of way (e.g. crosswalks). Outside of specific structured instances like that small yields to big. Of course if you just ignore that you don't have the right of way and just go people will slam on their brakes for you because that's the least costly option for dealing with the situation. It's like taking a left turn across traffic. Some people may stop and let you go if they deem it appropriate but the burden is on the you to turn when it is clear to do so, not on them to stop.
allendoerfer 9y ago
It is exactly the opposite in Germany. When you make turn on the road, pedestrians and cyclist have the right of way, even though they also will cross a road (the one you are turning into). It is the key principle in German traffic laws: You have to pay attention to what smaller and weaker vehicles are doing. Even when you are technically right, you can still be hold partially responsible for damages caused.
antisthenes 9y ago
> It's pretty universal that smaller crap yeild to bigger crap. Such a principle, stripped of all disguise, is surely the mere primitive doctrine that might is right. Surely, we can do better.