4 ms·

Doesn't the time-bandwidth reciprocity fall out of the same math as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Does this work have implications for HUP "workarounds"

by jpfed 9y ago

Doesn't the time-bandwidth reciprocity fall out of the same math as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Does this work have implications for HUP "workarounds"?

rrmm 9y ago
There are lots of systems that break the reciprocity: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.09548.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.09548.pdf from a few months ago has some descriptions. I think (not having read the Science paper) the issue would be that the underlying fundamental physics has reciprocity as a basic feature by way of Hermitian operators.
noobermin 9y ago
If you read the paper, the answer is yes, but you can work around it by basically breaking the symmetry between the "output" of a system and the "input"[0]. For the output and input, they will satisfy basic fourier uncertainty relations, but independently of each other. [0] I've scanned the paper a couple of times and it's still a little murky for me. I have other things to do, unfortunately. For a clue, see figure 2.
jpmattia 9y ago
> Doesn't the time-bandwidth reciprocity fall out of the same math as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Only loosely. Bandwidth in a traditional cavity is related to the loss in the cavity. (Energy coming out of a laser cavity is loss from the standpoint of the cavity.) There isn't a Lagrangian where bandwidth is the conjugate "momentum" to time. So not rigorously related to HUP, to my knowledge. > Does this work have implications for HUP "workarounds"? Doubtful. Non-reciprocal materials may seem like magic, but they are built out of things that still obey fundamental QM. But who knows, the world is a strange place.
Florin_Andrei 9y ago
I read the whole thing with great anticipation. I thought they did some magic math with EM waves in a vacuum. Then I saw this is actually some fancy material that's required for it to happen. Okay then, nevermind.

by jpfed 9y ago

Doesn't the time-bandwidth reciprocity fall out of the same math as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Does this work have implications for HUP "workarounds"?

rrmm 9y ago

There are lots of systems that break the reciprocity: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.09548.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.09548.pdf from a few months ago has some descriptions. I think (not having read the Science paper) the issue would be that the underlying fundamental physics has reciprocity as a basic feature by way of Hermitian operators.

noobermin 9y ago

If you read the paper, the answer is yes, but you can work around it by basically breaking the symmetry between the "output" of a system and the "input"[0]. For the output and input, they will satisfy basic fourier uncertainty relations, but independently of each other. [0] I've scanned the paper a couple of times and it's still a little murky for me. I have other things to do, unfortunately. For a clue, see figure 2.

jpmattia 9y ago

> Doesn't the time-bandwidth reciprocity fall out of the same math as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? Only loosely. Bandwidth in a traditional cavity is related to the loss in the cavity. (Energy coming out of a laser cavity is loss from the standpoint of the cavity.) There isn't a Lagrangian where bandwidth is the conjugate "momentum" to time. So not rigorously related to HUP, to my knowledge. > Does this work have implications for HUP "workarounds"? Doubtful. Non-reciprocal materials may seem like magic, but they are built out of things that still obey fundamental QM. But who knows, the world is a strange place.

Florin_Andrei 9y ago

I read the whole thing with great anticipation. I thought they did some magic math with EM waves in a vacuum. Then I saw this is actually some fancy material that's required for it to happen. Okay then, nevermind.