6 ms·

I don't care what they done in terms of stable runtime. I mean, I care, but not in the context of the language itself. Language is all - combined! The runtime,

I don't care what they done in terms of stable runtime. I mean, I care, but not in the context of the language itself. Language is all - combined! The runtime, syntax, libs, everything. I call it "experience" or "feeling". I like the idea to treat JS as web assembler, but as a language, JS is just a garbage. It will be garbage until you will be able to write code, that seems completely valid unless you are super JS geek and know that it will break. I will not reconsider my hate until you will be able to write `['10','10','10','10','10'].map(parseInt)` and get `[10, NaN, 2, 3, 4]` as a result (just a small example of many). Sorry if that puts you off.

the_cat_kittles 9y ago
it does, because you are clearly just a snob. its so obvious that people are just looking for reasons to hate javascript when they post shit like your dumb example. though i concede that is a pretty hilarious "wat". virtually all the dumb "gotchas" never show up, and the real gotchas are learned early, just like other languages. you are like a classical musician who thinks every other kind of music is not real and easy. the same damn attitude. go away
- wdanilo 9y ago
  the_cat_kittles I think you don't get the point of my answer or simply my answer was confusing, sorry for that. I did not wanted to start a big discussion here and just throw a controversial, stupid example. But it very clearly shows my main point. The point is that it is easily to write a code in Javascript that looks ok, but is not. The lack of good type system, legacy of how it was implemented on the beginning and everything connected to lack of general safety leads to this conclusion.
  - chimen 9y ago
    I disliked it myself up until ES6 when it started to be "enjoyable" or..should I say less annoying. I program in 6 languages (it may not be much but enough to draw a conclusion from a sample) and I can't say I have one without it's list of wtf's. By placing big keywords in your bio like "Serial enterpreneur, haskeller, programming languages design freak, former senior R&D technical director in the biggest film studios in Europe" + "hates java script" and keeping your flag up here makes it look very unprofessional. Of course, who are we to judge if not...your target audience for a "functional programming language", visual or not. I remember when RoR came out and some [1] "cool dudes" decided to mock everything else on the planet. RoR vs php, RoR vs this and that. It made me feel sick even though RoR was a big step up from everything else back then. It took me 2 - 3 years to even consider it because of that. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnnpbVW7Yb8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnnpbVW7Yb8
- simplify 9y ago
  Sorry dude, I'm going to have to step in; you're being too strong in your counter attitude. I've been writing and teaching JavaScript professionally for many years, and while I don't hate the language, I don't blame those who do. After learning and using a statically typed language, it becomes absurd how much effort you have to put in to debug a JavaScript type error – a problem that is amplified by the language design. What happens when you add 1 + undefined? Other dynamic languages make the sane choice of throwing an error immediately. JavaScript, however, silently gives you back NaN and continues chugging along. By the time a "real" error happens, you're stack traces away from the cause. What happens when you call a function f with one argument when it expects two? Other languages would throw immediately. Instead, JavaScript silently sweeps in an undefined and continues chugging along. Combine that with the other flaw I mentioned, and your runtime error will, again, be distant from the true cause. There's a reason TypeScript is getting insanely popular. It's the only way to code large JavaScript projects and stay sane.
  - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
    you are entitled to your opinion, and i appreciate that you offer it. and those are legitimate gripes. ive written it professionally for many years as well. there are alot of nice things about javascript as well, so in general i like the language. alot of what i read in the initial answer is a guy who wants to show he is a member of the cool kids club by hating on javascript. its so lame.
    - simplify 9y ago
      Try to be more charitable by seeing it from their point of view. Imagine being used to a language that helps you be rapidly productive and shields you from a huge catalog of mistakes. But one day you're forced to use JavaScript, and suddenly you've got nothing. It'd be like driving in a doorless jeep with no seatbelts on a high rise highway with no guard rails. Sure you can do what you want, and even in some nice, clever ways. But there are so many ways to hurt yourself, and no natural protections to prevent it. To put it another way, it's like throwing a frontend developer into the world of C. Suddenly you have to be aware of and correctly manage your memory explicitly, whereas before you were safely protected from having to think about it. Lastly, not everyone can voice their opinions so well. Communication is a difficult thing, and understanding what you're trying to communicate more so. If someone says they hate something, it's not always baseless. Instead of jumping to name-calling, have more patience in trying to understand why.
- danellis 9y ago
  > its so obvious that people are just looking for reasons to hate javascript Why would anyone have the motivation to do that? Either it has given them reasons to dislike it, or it hasn't. Why do you think anyone is predisposed to looking for those reasons?
  - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
    its just a kind of hipster thing to do, to hate things. i did it with mysql and php. its like a way to show that you are cool.
    - WillPostForFood 9y ago
      Even worse though,is to have your personal identity tied up in the language you work in. If you are actually Brendan Eich, then I get you taking it personally, otherwise, who cares?
      - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
        yea, i guess i shouldnt care as much.
- sctb 9y ago
  No matter what you're replying to, uncivil, name-calling dismissals and personal attacks are not OK on Hacker News. Please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
namuol 9y ago
Pet-peeve from a Javascript Apologist: The `map(parseInt)` example is an obscure strawman that exists solely due to historical purposes; it's very difficult to change this sort of thing in a language because it would involve one of two things: 1. Change the API of `parseInt`, break everything 2. Change the API of `Array::map`, break everything If you want JS devs to respect your voice you may want to attack the more fundamental problems with the language, like its lack of type-safety, rather than the remnants of its "upbringing".
felipesabino 9y ago
> @horse_js: JavaScript. It isn’t meant to be hand-written; https://twitter.com/horse_js/status/872243719889616897 https://twitter.com/horse_js/status/872243719889616897 :p
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

the_cat_kittles 9y ago

it does, because you are clearly just a snob. its so obvious that people are just looking for reasons to hate javascript when they post shit like your dumb example. though i concede that is a pretty hilarious "wat". virtually all the dumb "gotchas" never show up, and the real gotchas are learned early, just like other languages. you are like a classical musician who thinks every other kind of music is not real and easy. the same damn attitude. go away

wdanilo 9y ago
the_cat_kittles I think you don't get the point of my answer or simply my answer was confusing, sorry for that. I did not wanted to start a big discussion here and just throw a controversial, stupid example. But it very clearly shows my main point. The point is that it is easily to write a code in Javascript that looks ok, but is not. The lack of good type system, legacy of how it was implemented on the beginning and everything connected to lack of general safety leads to this conclusion.
- chimen 9y ago
  I disliked it myself up until ES6 when it started to be "enjoyable" or..should I say less annoying. I program in 6 languages (it may not be much but enough to draw a conclusion from a sample) and I can't say I have one without it's list of wtf's. By placing big keywords in your bio like "Serial enterpreneur, haskeller, programming languages design freak, former senior R&D technical director in the biggest film studios in Europe" + "hates java script" and keeping your flag up here makes it look very unprofessional. Of course, who are we to judge if not...your target audience for a "functional programming language", visual or not. I remember when RoR came out and some [1] "cool dudes" decided to mock everything else on the planet. RoR vs php, RoR vs this and that. It made me feel sick even though RoR was a big step up from everything else back then. It took me 2 - 3 years to even consider it because of that. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnnpbVW7Yb8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnnpbVW7Yb8
simplify 9y ago
Sorry dude, I'm going to have to step in; you're being too strong in your counter attitude. I've been writing and teaching JavaScript professionally for many years, and while I don't hate the language, I don't blame those who do. After learning and using a statically typed language, it becomes absurd how much effort you have to put in to debug a JavaScript type error – a problem that is amplified by the language design. What happens when you add 1 + undefined? Other dynamic languages make the sane choice of throwing an error immediately. JavaScript, however, silently gives you back NaN and continues chugging along. By the time a "real" error happens, you're stack traces away from the cause. What happens when you call a function f with one argument when it expects two? Other languages would throw immediately. Instead, JavaScript silently sweeps in an undefined and continues chugging along. Combine that with the other flaw I mentioned, and your runtime error will, again, be distant from the true cause. There's a reason TypeScript is getting insanely popular. It's the only way to code large JavaScript projects and stay sane.
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  you are entitled to your opinion, and i appreciate that you offer it. and those are legitimate gripes. ive written it professionally for many years as well. there are alot of nice things about javascript as well, so in general i like the language. alot of what i read in the initial answer is a guy who wants to show he is a member of the cool kids club by hating on javascript. its so lame.
  - simplify 9y ago
    Try to be more charitable by seeing it from their point of view. Imagine being used to a language that helps you be rapidly productive and shields you from a huge catalog of mistakes. But one day you're forced to use JavaScript, and suddenly you've got nothing. It'd be like driving in a doorless jeep with no seatbelts on a high rise highway with no guard rails. Sure you can do what you want, and even in some nice, clever ways. But there are so many ways to hurt yourself, and no natural protections to prevent it. To put it another way, it's like throwing a frontend developer into the world of C. Suddenly you have to be aware of and correctly manage your memory explicitly, whereas before you were safely protected from having to think about it. Lastly, not everyone can voice their opinions so well. Communication is a difficult thing, and understanding what you're trying to communicate more so. If someone says they hate something, it's not always baseless. Instead of jumping to name-calling, have more patience in trying to understand why.
danellis 9y ago
> its so obvious that people are just looking for reasons to hate javascript Why would anyone have the motivation to do that? Either it has given them reasons to dislike it, or it hasn't. Why do you think anyone is predisposed to looking for those reasons?
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  its just a kind of hipster thing to do, to hate things. i did it with mysql and php. its like a way to show that you are cool.
  - WillPostForFood 9y ago
    Even worse though,is to have your personal identity tied up in the language you work in. If you are actually Brendan Eich, then I get you taking it personally, otherwise, who cares?
    - the_cat_kittles 9y ago
      yea, i guess i shouldnt care as much.
sctb 9y ago
No matter what you're replying to, uncivil, name-calling dismissals and personal attacks are not OK on Hacker News. Please stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

namuol 9y ago

Pet-peeve from a Javascript Apologist: The `map(parseInt)` example is an obscure strawman that exists solely due to historical purposes; it's very difficult to change this sort of thing in a language because it would involve one of two things: 1. Change the API of `parseInt`, break everything 2. Change the API of `Array::map`, break everything If you want JS devs to respect your voice you may want to attack the more fundamental problems with the language, like its lack of type-safety, rather than the remnants of its "upbringing".

felipesabino 9y ago

> @horse_js: JavaScript. It isn’t meant to be hand-written; https://twitter.com/horse_js/status/872243719889616897 https://twitter.com/horse_js/status/872243719889616897 :p

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]