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I've played plenty of poker to supplement my income in the past. There is quite a difference in gambling against other players vs against the house. Casinos a

I've played plenty of poker to supplement my income in the past. There is quite a difference in gambling against other players vs against the house. Casinos are not in the business of losing money, so they control odds of the game and their gambles to ensure expected gains long term. They take a rake(small portion of the pots) from player vs player table games, essentially charging a fee for the service of providing a table and dealer. Poker is considered a game of skill to most, (you are making gambles, but can control the odds of yourself and other players by deciding upon wager amounts). This is why you see lots of professional poker players, but not slots players. That said, I found long term play both boring and depressing.

downandout 9y ago
To be fair, there are some professional slot players, and many more professional video poker players. In this [1] podcast episode of Gambling With an Edge, they interview a guy that has been beating slots professionally for 22 years. One of the hosts of the show is a celebrated professional video poker player, and the other is a professional table games player. There are as many ways to beat casinos as there are games on their floors. [1] http://slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/liston2.mp3 http://slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/liston2.mp3
- oillio 9y ago
  This is absolutely false. For credentials, I have worked for several years in the industry testing slot machine software. One of the things we test for is ensuring the game always pays out at the correct payback rate, which is always skewed so that the house wins. In most jurisdictions, the laws are written such that it is illegal to have a slot machine that pays back in the players favor over time (doing this would reduce the governments taxes). In a sufficiently large population, over a finite period of time, there can be a small set of people that look like they are winners. This is called survivorship bias. Given enough time, these people will eventually lose. However, anyone saying they know how to win on slot machines is probably just lying. The house always wins in the end. The only way to win as a player is to cheat.
  - random_comment 9y ago
    My brother used to work in a bar and asserts the following: Some days he would work all day and see people put money in a machine and not win anything much (e.g. jackpot never came up). Believing that the machine had a payback rate that would balance out over a few hours/days, he would deliberately put a bit of money in at the end of the 'no winner days', and would often win enough that it made it worthwhile overall. Anecdotal, but it seems consistent with your understanding and is a source of an edge.
    - mod 9y ago
      I own a bar and a few of these machines, and I can assure you they don't work that way. (I have several family members who believe they do, though) Each spin has an equal chance of winning. The payback is adjustable in the software, but it does not pay extra when it's behind. Of course, sometimes the jackpot is larger and that's a better time to play (but still not a good time).
      - random_comment 9y ago
        In the US & AU, I know they use a Theoretical Hold Worksheet which pre-specifies the win/lose ratios and is required for every machine. That worksheet doesn't make use of past wins/loses, i.e. it is stateless. This matches what you say. However, I do not know what the situation is in the UK/EU at present, and I do not know what it was 20 years ago (when my brother was working there).
        makomk 9y ago
        In the UK, it's common for gambling machines in places like pubs to have "compensated" payout odds that are are dependent on the history of wins/losses. Odd quirk of our regulations.
  - RockyMcNuts 9y ago
    There are slots plays for advantage players ... when the jackpot reaches some amount there can be an edge for the player, they do promotions that can be gamed ... takes a lot of studying the minutiae for a loophole ... a more general article on advantage players https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/magazine/how-advantage-players-game-the-casinos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/magazine/how-advantage-pl...

downandout 9y ago

To be fair, there are some professional slot players, and many more professional video poker players. In this [1] podcast episode of Gambling With an Edge, they interview a guy that has been beating slots professionally for 22 years. One of the hosts of the show is a celebrated professional video poker player, and the other is a professional table games player. There are as many ways to beat casinos as there are games on their floors. [1] http://slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/liston2.mp3 http://slot-machine-resource.com/podcasts/liston2.mp3

oillio 9y ago
This is absolutely false. For credentials, I have worked for several years in the industry testing slot machine software. One of the things we test for is ensuring the game always pays out at the correct payback rate, which is always skewed so that the house wins. In most jurisdictions, the laws are written such that it is illegal to have a slot machine that pays back in the players favor over time (doing this would reduce the governments taxes). In a sufficiently large population, over a finite period of time, there can be a small set of people that look like they are winners. This is called survivorship bias. Given enough time, these people will eventually lose. However, anyone saying they know how to win on slot machines is probably just lying. The house always wins in the end. The only way to win as a player is to cheat.
- random_comment 9y ago
  My brother used to work in a bar and asserts the following: Some days he would work all day and see people put money in a machine and not win anything much (e.g. jackpot never came up). Believing that the machine had a payback rate that would balance out over a few hours/days, he would deliberately put a bit of money in at the end of the 'no winner days', and would often win enough that it made it worthwhile overall. Anecdotal, but it seems consistent with your understanding and is a source of an edge.
  - mod 9y ago
    I own a bar and a few of these machines, and I can assure you they don't work that way. (I have several family members who believe they do, though) Each spin has an equal chance of winning. The payback is adjustable in the software, but it does not pay extra when it's behind. Of course, sometimes the jackpot is larger and that's a better time to play (but still not a good time).
    - random_comment 9y ago
      In the US & AU, I know they use a Theoretical Hold Worksheet which pre-specifies the win/lose ratios and is required for every machine. That worksheet doesn't make use of past wins/loses, i.e. it is stateless. This matches what you say. However, I do not know what the situation is in the UK/EU at present, and I do not know what it was 20 years ago (when my brother was working there).
      - makomk 9y ago
        In the UK, it's common for gambling machines in places like pubs to have "compensated" payout odds that are are dependent on the history of wins/losses. Odd quirk of our regulations.
- RockyMcNuts 9y ago
  There are slots plays for advantage players ... when the jackpot reaches some amount there can be an edge for the player, they do promotions that can be gamed ... takes a lot of studying the minutiae for a loophole ... a more general article on advantage players https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/magazine/how-advantage-players-game-the-casinos.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/magazine/how-advantage-pl...