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As someone who made one of the comparisons you're commenting on... > A lot of the comments here are comparing bare metal/virtual servers to a combination of tw
by Veratyr 9y ago
As someone who made one of the comparisons you're commenting on...
> A lot of the comments here are comparing bare metal/virtual servers to a combination of two+ products with literally dozens of built in capabilities, security controls, built in scaling, monitoring, logging, deployment mechanisms, and built in high availability. These are not apples to apples comparisons in the least.
Yes, I acknowledge that buying a pair of dedicated servers will not give me the things you mention however these things are coming at a cost and while they're nice to have, when you're running at a scale where a mere 2 baremetal servers can handle peak load, I'm dubious that you really need these things enough to pay ~2x to have them.
> What now do you do for: high availability, nearly instant scalability, monitoring, logging, alarming, deployment and security controls.
HA: OVH has load balancers too. Logging: Log to disk, rotate logs, compress them and send them to somewhere like S3 for further analysis with a cron job if desired. Monitoring + Alerting: You have competitors like NewRelic and DataDog, they're pretty trivial to set up. Alternatives can be self hosted when things get too expensive. Deployment: Depends on the app. Auto-updates on the servers and a private package repository could be enough. Security Controls: Depends entirely on the application.
Though not everyone needs all these things and AWS adds $200/month in additional expense relative to baremetal, which is a lot of savings to be had.
> Are you going to run all of your software on these 2-3 hosts? What happens when they go down? How quickly are you recovering?
Are you going to run all your software on AWS? What happens when AWS goes down? How quickly is AWS recovering?
You have to deal with these problems either way, AWS is no silver bullet and you're going to need to have disaster recovery plans either way. Most dedicated hosting providers I'm aware of will give you a basic SLA to start with and a better one can be purchased later. That covers hardware issues. Software issues are up to you but from the sound of things, the author's software is little more than a proxy.
> How about patching the OS, the software you run on it, your tools, your languages/packages?
Turn on unattended upgrades, pay a sysadmin a couple hundred bucks once every couple years to handle major upgrades if it's too scary to do yourself.
I'm under no illusions that paying AWS is always the wrong idea but the benefits of AWS come at high cost and not everyone is willing to pay it. I'm certainly not. I pay $60/mo for a colo (let's say $100/mo factoring in hardware) and to get the same capabilities on AWS, I'd be paying $23k for bandwidth, $1.4k for disk and $152 for CPU/RAM (an m3.2xlarge on a 3-year reserved plan), for a total of ~$24500/mo, or 245x what I'm paying now and more than enough to pay 2 full time engineers if I so wished.
- vacri 9y ago> I'm dubious that you really need these things enough to pay ~2x to have them. Does your business have an accountant? Why not just get a high-school grad - after all, totting up numbers is simple maths, and it's much cheaper. > You have competitors like NewRelic and DataDog, they're pretty trivial to set up. Ha! Complain about the price and then say "just install NewRelic". It's pretty clear from that comment alone that you've just got an axe to grind with AWS.
- Veratyr 9y ago> Why not just get a high-school grad - after all, totting up numbers is simple maths, and it's much cheaper. I'd liken AWS more to KPMG, Deloitte, E&Y or PwC than an accountant. You don't need your accountant to have a risk management consultancy any more than you need your server host to be able to provide instant and infinite scalability. > Ha! Complain about the price and then say "just install NewRelic". DD and NR are still cheaper than the 2x cost of using AWS and I also suggested self hosting. InfluxDB, Telegraf and Grafana are pretty trivial to set up. > you've just got an axe to grind with AWS. I only object to using AWS for everything or blindly. People don't seem to see the costs of using AWS or any of the other big cloud providers.
- vacri 9y ago> InfluxDB, Telegraf and Grafana are pretty trivial to set up. No, they're actually not. They're trivial to get to a state of "the process is running on my machine", but to actually get a set of suitable metrics presented the way you want them, that takes a while, especially if you're not already a skilled sysadmin. It's certainly more than "a couple of hours of sysadmin time every couple of years" that others in this thread suggest. Time and time again I've seen applications painted as "trivial to set up", then when you go to actually try it, the devil is in the details. Getting it running is only the start of it. Unless you have the simplest of use-cases, the stuff that comes out of the box is rarely enough. Ultimately, this is all penny-pinching nonsense at these numbers anyway. If your shop is bigger than a handful of people, $400/mo is chickenfeed compared to other business expenses. Your own use-case may indeed not be suitable for AWS - they do gouge you on traffic, and it looks like you're pushing a quarter-petabyte over the wire monthly, so that's certainly not a happy marriage.