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Just a slightly different perspective from the mob. "The culture at Uber is Toxic." I keep hearing this. Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues

by redm 9y ago

Just a slightly different perspective from the mob. "The culture at Uber is Toxic." I keep hearing this. Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic. I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company. As for the rest of the events, such as Greyball, etc. I don't consider that toxic, I consider that disruptive. Had Uber not have done that, the lobbyists for the Taxi industry would have kept the status quo. It was Uber, pushing hard, that changed the world, for the better. That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong. I also personally worked with Travis and I know his personality. He pushes hard, he works hard, he wants to win. That may be because he's had some really tough losses too (Scout, RedSwoosh [1]). I have a lot of respect for him, being an entrepreneur is tough, especially when it's raining. [1] Although he had an exit, it was a slog ~7-year slog where he lost funding and was, at one point, alone.

echlebek 9y ago
That's a nice sentiment, but I don't see how Uber has changed the world for the better. Has Uber's app decreased pollution or global warming? No. Has Uber's app decreased economic stratification? No. Has Uber's app created jobs? No, those drivers could be regular taxi drivers without Uber. How about gun violence, domestic violence, cancer, diabetes, rape, systemic racism, drug overdose? No, Uber has not improved any of those things. Yet when I imagine a better world, these are the things that come to mind. Uber makes an app that lets you hail a cab, or lets you drive people around without buying a medallion.
- redm 9y ago
  "Uber makes an app that lets you hail a cab, or lets you drive people around without buying a medallion." If you used Taxi's for primary transport and now use Uber, it changed your world for the better. "How about gun violence, domestic violence, cancer, diabetes, rape, systemic racism, drug overdose?" Those were not part of Uber's goal, it doesn't mean they didn't make the world just a bit better. I could say the same thing about Google or Apple. They have also changed the world but haven't addressed those issues. The difference is there wasn't regulation preventing a Google or an Apple from growing. Uber was challenging a broken system of laws protecting an industry.
burkaman 9y ago
What's your opinion of stuff like the Hell app, or intentionally sabotaging competitors? https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-requests-lyft/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-re...
- redm 9y ago
  That's tough to say, I don't know enough about the entire situation. I think it's safe to say that Lyft and Uber wherein a street fight and were both doing "questionable" things to each other. It reminds me of Thomas Edison sabotaging Tesla, and yet, here we are, on A/C. [1] [1] http://mentalfloss.com/article/30140/acdc-tesla%E2%80%93edison-feud http://mentalfloss.com/article/30140/acdc-tesla%E2%80%93edis...
  - burkaman 9y ago
    I couldn't find any example of similar actions by Lyft, but I could have missed something. Also, it's not just Lyft: https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/black-car-competitor-accuses-uber-of-shady-conduct-ddos-style-attack-uber-expresses-regret/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/black-car-competitor-accus... Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?
    - redm 9y ago
      "Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?" You're not really asking a question, you know that anti-competitive behavior is not making the world a better place, it's fighting for market share and dominance. Anti-competitive behavior is often rewarded in our society with higher profits, valuations, and market dominance. For example, Microsoft forcing PC makers to use Windows 95, or Microsoft using Windows to push IE crush Netscape. Look at Google pushing Chrome via all its products to take 70% market share, much of it from Mozilla, or Google downranking Yelp to push its own products.
rockarage 9y ago
>>Had Uber not have done that, the lobbyists for the Taxi industry would have kept the status quo. Uber has lobbyist now, working to change laws to benefit what they want to do, i.e. no fingerprint background checks for drivers in Austin see: https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/18/15657684/uber-lyft-austin-texas-ridehailing-state-law https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/18/15657684/uber-lyft-austin-t... From the above article "nonprofit Texans for Public Justice says the companies has spent more than $2.3 million on an army of 40 lobbyists." Is it right for Uber to use lobbyists to push for laws that limit background checks? >>It was Uber, pushing hard, that changed the world, for the better. That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong. No, Uber does not care whether rules are right or wrong, does not care about making the world better, it only cares about how things will affect the bottom line, case in point: Uber's behavior in NYC. We should know by now, that Uber had to make payments for short-changing drivers on pay, companies truly interested in making the world better, don't mistreat their partners see: https://theoutline.com/post/1780/uber-hasnt-changed https://theoutline.com/post/1780/uber-hasnt-changed In regards to rules, Uber did not pull out of NYC, yet NYC has tougher regulation than Austin. It rarely get’s reported but the only NYC regulation that was changed that helped Uber was allowing drivers to use smartphone apps for ride hailing. The other more expensive regulations remained. Not only do drivers have a relatively expensive background check process, but they also have to pay to register as a driver. All potential drivers are required to take several classes and pass several tests to become professional Taxi drivers. There is literally no legal ride sharing in NYC, all Uber drivers must be professionals. An important part of Uber strategy is winning NYC, NYC does not need Uber. In the end Uber is like most businesses, it is not about making the world better, it is about making lots of money.
ohsnapman 9y ago
> I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company. I'm not really sure this is a good measure of the toxicity of a company's culture, since it's not even close to a fair sampling of the people there.
erikpukinskis 9y ago
Every toxic environment needs a non-toxic superstructure for the henchmen to work in, live in, so they can feel good about themselves and regard criticism as contrary to appearances. Perhaps you and your friends live inside that space. The people who regard the purported toxic environment as toxic are either not allowed in that space, or are conditioned to hide their beliefs.
kafkaesq 9y ago
Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic. You can bury your head in the sand (and think back on all the fun you had at those boozy meetups), but the brunt of evidence now made public so far - and ultimately, the recent actions of Uber's board itself - clearly indicates otherwise, this issue. You don't just publicly fire 20 people - and ultimately, the CEO himself - for nothing, after all. That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, man, and drink it deep. There's plenty more where it came from.

by redm 9y ago

echlebek 9y ago

That's a nice sentiment, but I don't see how Uber has changed the world for the better. Has Uber's app decreased pollution or global warming? No. Has Uber's app decreased economic stratification? No. Has Uber's app created jobs? No, those drivers could be regular taxi drivers without Uber. How about gun violence, domestic violence, cancer, diabetes, rape, systemic racism, drug overdose? No, Uber has not improved any of those things. Yet when I imagine a better world, these are the things that come to mind. Uber makes an app that lets you hail a cab, or lets you drive people around without buying a medallion.

redm 9y ago
"Uber makes an app that lets you hail a cab, or lets you drive people around without buying a medallion." If you used Taxi's for primary transport and now use Uber, it changed your world for the better. "How about gun violence, domestic violence, cancer, diabetes, rape, systemic racism, drug overdose?" Those were not part of Uber's goal, it doesn't mean they didn't make the world just a bit better. I could say the same thing about Google or Apple. They have also changed the world but haven't addressed those issues. The difference is there wasn't regulation preventing a Google or an Apple from growing. Uber was challenging a broken system of laws protecting an industry.

burkaman 9y ago

What's your opinion of stuff like the Hell app, or intentionally sabotaging competitors? https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/ http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-requests-lyft/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-re...

redm 9y ago
That's tough to say, I don't know enough about the entire situation. I think it's safe to say that Lyft and Uber wherein a street fight and were both doing "questionable" things to each other. It reminds me of Thomas Edison sabotaging Tesla, and yet, here we are, on A/C. [1] [1] http://mentalfloss.com/article/30140/acdc-tesla%E2%80%93edison-feud http://mentalfloss.com/article/30140/acdc-tesla%E2%80%93edis...
- burkaman 9y ago
  I couldn't find any example of similar actions by Lyft, but I could have missed something. Also, it's not just Lyft: https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/black-car-competitor-accuses-uber-of-shady-conduct-ddos-style-attack-uber-expresses-regret/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/black-car-competitor-accus... Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?
  - redm 9y ago
    "Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?" You're not really asking a question, you know that anti-competitive behavior is not making the world a better place, it's fighting for market share and dominance. Anti-competitive behavior is often rewarded in our society with higher profits, valuations, and market dominance. For example, Microsoft forcing PC makers to use Windows 95, or Microsoft using Windows to push IE crush Netscape. Look at Google pushing Chrome via all its products to take 70% market share, much of it from Mozilla, or Google downranking Yelp to push its own products.

rockarage 9y ago

>>Had Uber not have done that, the lobbyists for the Taxi industry would have kept the status quo. Uber has lobbyist now, working to change laws to benefit what they want to do, i.e. no fingerprint background checks for drivers in Austin see: https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/18/15657684/uber-lyft-austin-texas-ridehailing-state-law https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/18/15657684/uber-lyft-austin-t... From the above article "nonprofit Texans for Public Justice says the companies has spent more than $2.3 million on an army of 40 lobbyists." Is it right for Uber to use lobbyists to push for laws that limit background checks? >>It was Uber, pushing hard, that changed the world, for the better. That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong. No, Uber does not care whether rules are right or wrong, does not care about making the world better, it only cares about how things will affect the bottom line, case in point: Uber's behavior in NYC. We should know by now, that Uber had to make payments for short-changing drivers on pay, companies truly interested in making the world better, don't mistreat their partners see: https://theoutline.com/post/1780/uber-hasnt-changed https://theoutline.com/post/1780/uber-hasnt-changed In regards to rules, Uber did not pull out of NYC, yet NYC has tougher regulation than Austin. It rarely get’s reported but the only NYC regulation that was changed that helped Uber was allowing drivers to use smartphone apps for ride hailing. The other more expensive regulations remained. Not only do drivers have a relatively expensive background check process, but they also have to pay to register as a driver. All potential drivers are required to take several classes and pass several tests to become professional Taxi drivers. There is literally no legal ride sharing in NYC, all Uber drivers must be professionals. An important part of Uber strategy is winning NYC, NYC does not need Uber. In the end Uber is like most businesses, it is not about making the world better, it is about making lots of money.

ohsnapman 9y ago

> I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company. I'm not really sure this is a good measure of the toxicity of a company's culture, since it's not even close to a fair sampling of the people there.

erikpukinskis 9y ago

Every toxic environment needs a non-toxic superstructure for the henchmen to work in, live in, so they can feel good about themselves and regard criticism as contrary to appearances. Perhaps you and your friends live inside that space. The people who regard the purported toxic environment as toxic are either not allowed in that space, or are conditioned to hide their beliefs.

kafkaesq 9y ago

Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic. You can bury your head in the sand (and think back on all the fun you had at those boozy meetups), but the brunt of evidence now made public so far - and ultimately, the recent actions of Uber's board itself - clearly indicates otherwise, this issue. You don't just publicly fire 20 people - and ultimately, the CEO himself - for nothing, after all. That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, man, and drink it deep. There's plenty more where it came from.