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Imagination Technologies put up for sale amid Apple dispute

64 points by _anything_ 9y ago

bryanlarsen 9y ago
My cynical take: Imagination Tech's legitimate business is vulnerable to an Apple counter-suit. Without that legitimate business weighing it down it would be much more valuable as a patent troll.
- icanhackit 9y ago
  > it would be much more valuable as a patent troll Or the threat of a counter-suit is low but they want to weaponize the company out of spite and the low chance of recovering as a producer of new IP. My recollection might be off but didn't Apple want to purchase Imagination but Imagination wanted to remain an independent company, so Apple hired away their talent instead? Or am I confusing this with what they did to Nuance?
ChuckMcM 9y ago
I feel like Imagination Tech can't die fast enough. These guys aggressively created patent clouds around anything and everything 3D graphic. It wasn't until a lot of the base patents on 3D acceleration started expiring that anyone would even consider the move Apple made. I hope that in 5 years we've got SoC's with fully open GPUs that are at least as powerful as the old 3Dfx Voodoo and Nvidia TNT series from the 90s.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Nvidia and AMD are doing the same thing. Outside of X86 GPUs are probably the most walled off market, you literally cannot make a GPU today without violating a patent.
  - wolfgke 9y ago
    > Outside of X86 GPUs are probably the most walled off market I think FPGAs are more walled off.
  - rasz 9y ago
    NVidia started to use tiled rendering recently, EDIT: maybe after relevant Imagination patents expired.
- kimixa 9y ago
  PowerVR have never filed a single patent suit. Are you confused with a different company? Like NVidia [1] or AMD [2] or something? [1] https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/04/nvidia-launches-patent-suits/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/04/nvidia-launches-pat... [2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/11101/amd-files-patent-complaint-against-mediatek-lg-vizio http://www.anandtech.com/show/11101/amd-files-patent-complai...
  - comex 9y ago
    Perhaps not, but it certainly owns a lot of patents: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Imagination+Technologies+Ltd&num=100 https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Imagination+Technologie...
    - Twin_Snakes 9y ago
      Obviously, every single GPU company has a fuckton of patents. Not having them is a recipe for being sued by everyone else.
Grazester 9y ago
Google seems to be interested in hardware, hiring an ex Apple chip designer. Maybe they would be interested in this sale.
- samfisher83 9y ago
  For 500 mil it should be a no brainier. Its like a rounding error for google.
  - rwmj 9y ago
    ImgTech has been a bit of a basket case for a long time. Why did they buy MIPS for $100m? Why have they just (last year) built a huge posh new HQ when they were losing money? I don't think it's something Google would want.
    - fordred 9y ago
      As a former employee of PowerVR, work began around the start of 2011, and was done in (at least) 3 phases. They finished the 2nd phase around the start of 2014, but I'm not sure when the final phase was completed. Plans were definitely made during the golden-years.
frou_dh 9y ago
Wonder if Apple's inhouse GPUs will turn out as well as their CPUs. It's gotta be a hell of a gig to land to work on either.
thrillgore 9y ago
Edit: I misspoke, I had the wrong company in my sights. Sorry folks.
- kimixa 9y ago
  Got a source on that? As far as I'm aware Imagination have never been in the controller/haptic feedback market. EDIT: Are you thinking of "Immersion" [1]? Completely different company. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony
- cfraenkel 9y ago
  Damn, you got my hopes up. I think you're confusing these guys with "Immersion", who were the haptic feedback people.
IBM 9y ago
2017 was the year Apple decided they don't feel like paying for IP anymore. I can't wait to see how the Qualcomm case plays out. I'm not a lawyer, but the recent Supreme Court decision on Lexmark seems like a huge threat to Qualcomm's business model.
faragon 9y ago
My bet: Apple will buy Imagination Technologies.
- sweden 9y ago
  It would be illegal after the announcement that they would stop buying Imagination's GPUs. Imagination's value tanked after, they wouldn't be allowed to buy it.
  - faragon 9y ago
    Not necessarily, e.g. if the takeover has a prime high enough for matching previous stock price. Or buying IT for cheap, without using any of their chips, just for having their patents.

64 points by _anything_ 9y ago

My cynical take: Imagination Tech's legitimate business is vulnerable to an Apple counter-suit. Without that legitimate business weighing it down it would be much more valuable as a patent troll.

icanhackit 9y ago
> it would be much more valuable as a patent troll Or the threat of a counter-suit is low but they want to weaponize the company out of spite and the low chance of recovering as a producer of new IP. My recollection might be off but didn't Apple want to purchase Imagination but Imagination wanted to remain an independent company, so Apple hired away their talent instead? Or am I confusing this with what they did to Nuance?

ChuckMcM 9y ago

I feel like Imagination Tech can't die fast enough. These guys aggressively created patent clouds around anything and everything 3D graphic. It wasn't until a lot of the base patents on 3D acceleration started expiring that anyone would even consider the move Apple made. I hope that in 5 years we've got SoC's with fully open GPUs that are at least as powerful as the old 3Dfx Voodoo and Nvidia TNT series from the 90s.

dogma1138 9y ago
Nvidia and AMD are doing the same thing. Outside of X86 GPUs are probably the most walled off market, you literally cannot make a GPU today without violating a patent.
- wolfgke 9y ago
  > Outside of X86 GPUs are probably the most walled off market I think FPGAs are more walled off.
- rasz 9y ago
  NVidia started to use tiled rendering recently, EDIT: maybe after relevant Imagination patents expired.
kimixa 9y ago
PowerVR have never filed a single patent suit. Are you confused with a different company? Like NVidia [1] or AMD [2] or something? [1] https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/04/nvidia-launches-patent-suits/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/04/nvidia-launches-pat... [2] http://www.anandtech.com/show/11101/amd-files-patent-complaint-against-mediatek-lg-vizio http://www.anandtech.com/show/11101/amd-files-patent-complai...
- comex 9y ago
  Perhaps not, but it certainly owns a lot of patents: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Imagination+Technologies+Ltd&num=100 https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Imagination+Technologie...
  - Twin_Snakes 9y ago
    Obviously, every single GPU company has a fuckton of patents. Not having them is a recipe for being sued by everyone else.

Grazester 9y ago

Google seems to be interested in hardware, hiring an ex Apple chip designer. Maybe they would be interested in this sale.

samfisher83 9y ago
For 500 mil it should be a no brainier. Its like a rounding error for google.
- rwmj 9y ago
  ImgTech has been a bit of a basket case for a long time. Why did they buy MIPS for $100m? Why have they just (last year) built a huge posh new HQ when they were losing money? I don't think it's something Google would want.
  - fordred 9y ago
    As a former employee of PowerVR, work began around the start of 2011, and was done in (at least) 3 phases. They finished the 2nd phase around the start of 2014, but I'm not sure when the final phase was completed. Plans were definitely made during the golden-years.

frou_dh 9y ago

Wonder if Apple's inhouse GPUs will turn out as well as their CPUs. It's gotta be a hell of a gig to land to work on either.

thrillgore 9y ago

Edit: I misspoke, I had the wrong company in my sights. Sorry folks.

kimixa 9y ago
Got a source on that? As far as I'm aware Imagination have never been in the controller/haptic feedback market. EDIT: Are you thinking of "Immersion" [1]? Completely different company. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony
cfraenkel 9y ago
Damn, you got my hopes up. I think you're confusing these guys with "Immersion", who were the haptic feedback people.

IBM 9y ago

2017 was the year Apple decided they don't feel like paying for IP anymore. I can't wait to see how the Qualcomm case plays out. I'm not a lawyer, but the recent Supreme Court decision on Lexmark seems like a huge threat to Qualcomm's business model.

faragon 9y ago

My bet: Apple will buy Imagination Technologies.

sweden 9y ago
It would be illegal after the announcement that they would stop buying Imagination's GPUs. Imagination's value tanked after, they wouldn't be allowed to buy it.
- faragon 9y ago
  Not necessarily, e.g. if the takeover has a prime high enough for matching previous stock price. Or buying IT for cheap, without using any of their chips, just for having their patents.