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That is less material to the story than the idea that Kalanick wasn't involved in some conspiracy to steal Waymo's tech. The media wants to propagate the story

That is less material to the story than the idea that Kalanick wasn't involved in some conspiracy to steal Waymo's tech. The media wants to propagate the story that Uber and Levandowski were conspiring to steal Waymo's technology, but this makes it clear that it wasn't the case, and if there was theft of secrets, it was Levandowski on his own.

xyzzy_plugh 9y ago
TFA also does a poor job describing Levandowski's departure, leaving out the fact that the court effectively ordered them to do so if he wouldn't play ball. So far the only thing we actually know is that Levandowski refuses to talk, for which he lost his job.
_jal 9y ago
The media wants to tell any story that gets attention. Complaining about the media is a distraction, but at least here there's the amusement of accusing the media of conspiring to tell the story of a conspiracy that doesn't exist. The contempt charge is less material to the story you are interested in talking about, but looks rather important to me. And we don't have proof of anything - Maybe Kalanick got cold feet partway through. We don't yet have sufficient detail to know what this means. Although now that you shine a light on this, it does seem to demonstrate is that Kalanick went ahead with a key hire who was anteing stolen IP. Call that what you will, but I wouldn't hire a janitor who did that, nor would knowingly I work for anyone who would do that. And it is also further recklessness - even putting aside ethics and legality, who is to say Levandowski wouldn't do the same thing to Uber if he got a better offer?
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  I agree that the entire Levandowski mess is completely Kalanick's fault. He was in completely control when he hired him, and presumably overincentivized him with a $250 million pay package. But that's a completely different issue than the original point. The point is that there was no conspiracy to steal Waymo's trade secrets. There was no conspiracy to use Waymo's technologies in Uber self-driving cars, who already had hundreds of engineers and professors working on it for years. We don't know what the full conversation was between the two of them, but we do know from the article that once Kalanick knew that Levandowski had some sort of files, he told him to destroy it immediately and that he didn't want that to be used by Uber. I think that part is very clear.
  - _jal 9y ago
    I do not know that there was no conspiracy, and neither do you unless you have nonpublic information. We have a very narrow slice of information that has been filtered through the legal process. Your particular slant on the story is great, enjoy. At least you've dropped the cheap media bashing; that was my primary point.
    - pfarnsworth 9y ago
      You're no longer making any sense. I still believe the media is terribly biased. And this is Waymo's own testimony that Kalanick asked to destroy the documents once he found out about them. How could there be a conspiracy?
      - _jal 9y ago
        I'm done. This is a pointless discussion. I will answer the question: > How could there be a conspiracy? You're posting in multiple threads in this discussion; you couldn't have missed that many people in this thread have pointed out the obvious; it could be a wink and nod. "Honey, don't steal any jewelry from your job at PreciousGemCo. That would be wrong. You know how I do love my diamonds..." If you're unable to imagine other scenarios that fit the very few facts we have, (1) perhaps you can talk to a CPA, hacker, attorney, con-man, or someone else who is familiar with fraud that's more subtle than Three Card Monte. And, (2) I'd strongly suggest for your own good that you have someone you trust review any contracts you might want to sign.
  - AnimalMuppet 9y ago
    Well, Kalanick told Levandowski to destroy the files immediately, and hired him knowing that he had taken the files from Waymo. I'm not quite sure what to make of that. He's so desperate to win at self-driving cars that he'll hire Levandowski, even though Levandowski has proven himself to be shady? He's "telling" Levandowski (with a wink) to destroy the files, really meaning "keep a copy at home, don't let it ever touch our work computers, but keep feeding us the information"? Or what? I guess, at a minimum, the fact that Uber tried to delay this information from getting into the court case means that it isn't innocent. (Or they're afraid that it looks bad enough that it's really going to cost them. But delaying disclosure makes it look bad, too...)

xyzzy_plugh 9y ago

TFA also does a poor job describing Levandowski's departure, leaving out the fact that the court effectively ordered them to do so if he wouldn't play ball. So far the only thing we actually know is that Levandowski refuses to talk, for which he lost his job.

_jal 9y ago

The media wants to tell any story that gets attention. Complaining about the media is a distraction, but at least here there's the amusement of accusing the media of conspiring to tell the story of a conspiracy that doesn't exist. The contempt charge is less material to the story you are interested in talking about, but looks rather important to me. And we don't have proof of anything - Maybe Kalanick got cold feet partway through. We don't yet have sufficient detail to know what this means. Although now that you shine a light on this, it does seem to demonstrate is that Kalanick went ahead with a key hire who was anteing stolen IP. Call that what you will, but I wouldn't hire a janitor who did that, nor would knowingly I work for anyone who would do that. And it is also further recklessness - even putting aside ethics and legality, who is to say Levandowski wouldn't do the same thing to Uber if he got a better offer?

pfarnsworth 9y ago
I agree that the entire Levandowski mess is completely Kalanick's fault. He was in completely control when he hired him, and presumably overincentivized him with a $250 million pay package. But that's a completely different issue than the original point. The point is that there was no conspiracy to steal Waymo's trade secrets. There was no conspiracy to use Waymo's technologies in Uber self-driving cars, who already had hundreds of engineers and professors working on it for years. We don't know what the full conversation was between the two of them, but we do know from the article that once Kalanick knew that Levandowski had some sort of files, he told him to destroy it immediately and that he didn't want that to be used by Uber. I think that part is very clear.
- _jal 9y ago
  I do not know that there was no conspiracy, and neither do you unless you have nonpublic information. We have a very narrow slice of information that has been filtered through the legal process. Your particular slant on the story is great, enjoy. At least you've dropped the cheap media bashing; that was my primary point.
  - pfarnsworth 9y ago
    You're no longer making any sense. I still believe the media is terribly biased. And this is Waymo's own testimony that Kalanick asked to destroy the documents once he found out about them. How could there be a conspiracy?
    - _jal 9y ago
      I'm done. This is a pointless discussion. I will answer the question: > How could there be a conspiracy? You're posting in multiple threads in this discussion; you couldn't have missed that many people in this thread have pointed out the obvious; it could be a wink and nod. "Honey, don't steal any jewelry from your job at PreciousGemCo. That would be wrong. You know how I do love my diamonds..." If you're unable to imagine other scenarios that fit the very few facts we have, (1) perhaps you can talk to a CPA, hacker, attorney, con-man, or someone else who is familiar with fraud that's more subtle than Three Card Monte. And, (2) I'd strongly suggest for your own good that you have someone you trust review any contracts you might want to sign.
- AnimalMuppet 9y ago
  Well, Kalanick told Levandowski to destroy the files immediately, and hired him knowing that he had taken the files from Waymo. I'm not quite sure what to make of that. He's so desperate to win at self-driving cars that he'll hire Levandowski, even though Levandowski has proven himself to be shady? He's "telling" Levandowski (with a wink) to destroy the files, really meaning "keep a copy at home, don't let it ever touch our work computers, but keep feeding us the information"? Or what? I guess, at a minimum, the fact that Uber tried to delay this information from getting into the court case means that it isn't innocent. (Or they're afraid that it looks bad enough that it's really going to cost them. But delaying disclosure makes it look bad, too...)