4 ms·

"but the C standard isn't even freely available (though one can get drafts, which are “close” to the final standard)" I assumed it was free. If it's not, then

"but the C standard isn't even freely available (though one can get drafts, which are “close” to the final standard)" I assumed it was free. If it's not, then it isn't even fully open as a language. Can anyone refute it with a link to free standard?

FigBug 9y ago
This is true for any ISO standardized language: C, C++, ECMAScript/Javascript, COBOL, Ada, Forth, Fortran, Pascal, Ruby, SQL and more. C# dropped their ISO standard after 2.0
- nickpsecurity 9y ago
  There's free descriptions for quite a few of those languages available online.
- CapacitorSet 9y ago
  I don't know about the other languages, but at least with regards to ECMAScript the specification can be accessed freely at https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/7.0/index.html https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/7.0/index.html - though the License chapter says that "after approval all rights on the standard are reserved by Ecma International."
- bzbarsky 9y ago
  ECMAScript is standardized by ECMA, not ISO, so the rules are a bit different.
- krylon 9y ago
  I am not sure if they use any special legal construct, but last time I played around with Ada, the full Ada standard was available for free. The actual standard, not some revised draft. On top of that the rationale document which explains many of the design decisions was also available for free. (It's been a while, but I found these rationale documents fascinating reading.)
shakna 9y ago
It's the way ISO does things. C11 is here. [0] However, the working draft immediately before is open. In this case, C1X is here [1]. [0] https://www.iso.org/standard/57853.html https://www.iso.org/standard/57853.html [1] http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf
- mort96 9y ago
  So... no ISO standard is really free or open, just drafts which may or may not be similar? That sounds kind of shitty.
  - shakna 9y ago
    I think ISO would say the standard is open, but not free. You're not required to be a member of a working group to access the final standard, you just have to buy the book. Which has created a history of languages that usually follow the standard quite strictly. (Though, I do personally despise the non-free aspect, I can sort of understand it, considering history and the effort to standardise).

FigBug 9y ago

This is true for any ISO standardized language: C, C++, ECMAScript/Javascript, COBOL, Ada, Forth, Fortran, Pascal, Ruby, SQL and more. C# dropped their ISO standard after 2.0

nickpsecurity 9y ago
There's free descriptions for quite a few of those languages available online.
CapacitorSet 9y ago
I don't know about the other languages, but at least with regards to ECMAScript the specification can be accessed freely at https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/7.0/index.html https://www.ecma-international.org/ecma-262/7.0/index.html - though the License chapter says that "after approval all rights on the standard are reserved by Ecma International."
bzbarsky 9y ago
ECMAScript is standardized by ECMA, not ISO, so the rules are a bit different.
krylon 9y ago
I am not sure if they use any special legal construct, but last time I played around with Ada, the full Ada standard was available for free. The actual standard, not some revised draft. On top of that the rationale document which explains many of the design decisions was also available for free. (It's been a while, but I found these rationale documents fascinating reading.)

shakna 9y ago

It's the way ISO does things. C11 is here. [0] However, the working draft immediately before is open. In this case, C1X is here [1]. [0] https://www.iso.org/standard/57853.html https://www.iso.org/standard/57853.html [1] http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1256.pdf

mort96 9y ago
So... no ISO standard is really free or open, just drafts which may or may not be similar? That sounds kind of shitty.
- shakna 9y ago
  I think ISO would say the standard is open, but not free. You're not required to be a member of a working group to access the final standard, you just have to buy the book. Which has created a history of languages that usually follow the standard quite strictly. (Though, I do personally despise the non-free aspect, I can sort of understand it, considering history and the effort to standardise).