3 ms·

These are only as “uncensorable” as any other IPFS object, right? Which is to say, not very. IPFS isn't even encrypted right now.

StavrosK 9y ago
Yes, they are. Although, how is IPFS censorable? As long as you can connect to a node, you can retrieve its content. You'd have to prevent connection to the entire network to censor something (minus the encryption that you correctly stated).
- TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
  > You'd have to prevent connection to the entire network to censor something That's not necessary if you can perform deep packet inspection or a MITM attack on IPFS traffic, which there's nothing to stop you doing right now.
  - jstanley 9y ago
    Very soon it will be able to work over TOR hidden services.
    - kefka 9y ago
      It already does. Check out OpenBazaar's patches that include Tour and I2P functionality.
      - jstanley 9y ago
        That's what I was referring to: their Tor support is not in mainline IPFS yet, AFAIK, although it should be soon.
        kefka 9y ago
        Yeah, primarily, OpenBazaar did it a way, and the #ipfs team in freenode isn't sure if that's the best way. It primarily has to do with Kadmelia and DHT. How does one consider an adapter or transit to IPFS as a "secure don't leak other addresses"? Does one run a secure IPFS for Tor and I2P? Should it be integrated with a flag on those interfaces? The IPFS team wanted to get everything else settled, protocol-wise before going down the idea of secured, and hidden protocols, given IPFS's propensity of splattering all interfaces through it (even unroutable internal network addresses).
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    There's nothing to stop you now, but that's just because there's no encryption. Once encryption is implemented, this will be harder/impossible to do (especially since it's trivial for a client to verify that the content it got for some hash is correct).
    - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
      Perhaps it'll be a great system if or when that happens. But it is a stretch to call it “uncensorable” when it isn't, and clearly hasn't been designed for it.
      - StavrosK 9y ago
        I don't know, when censorship entails deep packet inspection between all pairs of nodes on the internet, I'm good with "uncensorable" as a shorthand for "practically impossible to censor unless you control the entire internet".
        tscs37 9y ago
        You don't need to control the entire Internet. See: Firewall of China. You only need to control the big fiber paths of which there aren't many. Of just in general the exit and entry points between countries. The Internet is not an open mesh.
        StavrosK 9y ago
        Even with the firewall, you can't control what's going on inside of China, and you only need one node inside to fetch something from the outside, and that's it.
        tscs37 9y ago
        You can certainly control incoming traffic to china. And once inside, you are subject to extreme government spying which can easily mean that everyone who gets a hold of unallowed content "vanishes". Furthermore, this is an issue not even encryption can fully solve, you still need to do a key exchange which means you need to either find a source of trust in the other side via sidechannels (aka PKI, TOFU or similar) or you allow everyone to easily intercept the data without much effort (aka skip-verify on TLS) The internet in china is not lacking in surveillance and censorship. This is an issue that even Tor is still chewing on a lot, afaik plain Tor connections in China are not very welcome and even blocked. So unless you claim that your crypt and security is better and more battletested than Tor, I'd say IPFS is anything but censorship resistant.

StavrosK 9y ago

Yes, they are. Although, how is IPFS censorable? As long as you can connect to a node, you can retrieve its content. You'd have to prevent connection to the entire network to censor something (minus the encryption that you correctly stated).

TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
> You'd have to prevent connection to the entire network to censor something That's not necessary if you can perform deep packet inspection or a MITM attack on IPFS traffic, which there's nothing to stop you doing right now.
- jstanley 9y ago
  Very soon it will be able to work over TOR hidden services.
  - kefka 9y ago
    It already does. Check out OpenBazaar's patches that include Tour and I2P functionality.
    - jstanley 9y ago
      That's what I was referring to: their Tor support is not in mainline IPFS yet, AFAIK, although it should be soon.
      - kefka 9y ago
        Yeah, primarily, OpenBazaar did it a way, and the #ipfs team in freenode isn't sure if that's the best way. It primarily has to do with Kadmelia and DHT. How does one consider an adapter or transit to IPFS as a "secure don't leak other addresses"? Does one run a secure IPFS for Tor and I2P? Should it be integrated with a flag on those interfaces? The IPFS team wanted to get everything else settled, protocol-wise before going down the idea of secured, and hidden protocols, given IPFS's propensity of splattering all interfaces through it (even unroutable internal network addresses).
- StavrosK 9y ago
  There's nothing to stop you now, but that's just because there's no encryption. Once encryption is implemented, this will be harder/impossible to do (especially since it's trivial for a client to verify that the content it got for some hash is correct).
  - TazeTSchnitzel 9y ago
    Perhaps it'll be a great system if or when that happens. But it is a stretch to call it “uncensorable” when it isn't, and clearly hasn't been designed for it.
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      I don't know, when censorship entails deep packet inspection between all pairs of nodes on the internet, I'm good with "uncensorable" as a shorthand for "practically impossible to censor unless you control the entire internet".
      - tscs37 9y ago
        You don't need to control the entire Internet. See: Firewall of China. You only need to control the big fiber paths of which there aren't many. Of just in general the exit and entry points between countries. The Internet is not an open mesh.
        StavrosK 9y ago
        Even with the firewall, you can't control what's going on inside of China, and you only need one node inside to fetch something from the outside, and that's it.
        tscs37 9y ago
        You can certainly control incoming traffic to china. And once inside, you are subject to extreme government spying which can easily mean that everyone who gets a hold of unallowed content "vanishes". Furthermore, this is an issue not even encryption can fully solve, you still need to do a key exchange which means you need to either find a source of trust in the other side via sidechannels (aka PKI, TOFU or similar) or you allow everyone to easily intercept the data without much effort (aka skip-verify on TLS) The internet in china is not lacking in surveillance and censorship. This is an issue that even Tor is still chewing on a lot, afaik plain Tor connections in China are not very welcome and even blocked. So unless you claim that your crypt and security is better and more battletested than Tor, I'd say IPFS is anything but censorship resistant.