4 ms·

seems a bit odd, you rank western countries on various things you always get, surprise, some kind of ranking and people can moan or boast about it..... in terms

seems a bit odd, you rank western countries on various things you always get, surprise, some kind of ranking and people can moan or boast about it..... in terms of the "points" difference, it's not too big comparatively. Not sure these kinds of indexes really tell the real story.

arethuza 9y ago
With any of these rankings (also for things like universities) I always wonder if the authors start out with an idea of the desired output and then work backwards to select and weight the various factors to give the "right" answer.
- quickben 9y ago
  So, what do you propose then? To measure the "wellness" of a country's population, they took stuff as health, education, etc. What would you choose?
- mbrodersen 9y ago
  Well show us how to do it better then.
Zigurd 9y ago
They tell a story, nevertheless. Unless a form of measurement results in perverse incentives, it's still informative. US cops shoot a lot of people, disproportionately black. US prisons are stuffed, for a private profit or to keep an institutional flywheel spinning. US high schools that are not in rich suburbs could do a lot better, and the ones that are doing well enough are often complacent. US wars burned trillions of dollars our children will pay back with interest. Eventually large drags like these will pull down our overall national status, and failing to address them will drag us lower, for longer. Everybody has problems, but that's no excuse for not addressing our problems. Even less is it an excuse to pull out the dog whistle and say, in effect, "we can't be like Sweden because... um... we have too many differently pigmented people."
mbrodersen 9y ago
So what would tell the "real" story then? Admitting there is a problem is the first step to finding a solution. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't solve anything.
- keithnz 9y ago
  the point is, I don't think this shows a problem, and I'm not sure, that even if you do admit a problem that the solution is any closer, potentially it's going to get worse. When we look at the big issues of the day, people see lots of problems and are trying to solve them with bad information often with lots of sound bite statistics. A lot of people here on HN would know the problems of simplified statistics don't really tell the story that it seems to be telling. A far better analysis is needed. But even with the best science, evidence, and analysis, we can still be a long long way from people even starting on working on a solution.

arethuza 9y ago

With any of these rankings (also for things like universities) I always wonder if the authors start out with an idea of the desired output and then work backwards to select and weight the various factors to give the "right" answer.

quickben 9y ago
So, what do you propose then? To measure the "wellness" of a country's population, they took stuff as health, education, etc. What would you choose?
mbrodersen 9y ago
Well show us how to do it better then.

Zigurd 9y ago

They tell a story, nevertheless. Unless a form of measurement results in perverse incentives, it's still informative. US cops shoot a lot of people, disproportionately black. US prisons are stuffed, for a private profit or to keep an institutional flywheel spinning. US high schools that are not in rich suburbs could do a lot better, and the ones that are doing well enough are often complacent. US wars burned trillions of dollars our children will pay back with interest. Eventually large drags like these will pull down our overall national status, and failing to address them will drag us lower, for longer. Everybody has problems, but that's no excuse for not addressing our problems. Even less is it an excuse to pull out the dog whistle and say, in effect, "we can't be like Sweden because... um... we have too many differently pigmented people."

mbrodersen 9y ago

So what would tell the "real" story then? Admitting there is a problem is the first step to finding a solution. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't solve anything.

keithnz 9y ago
the point is, I don't think this shows a problem, and I'm not sure, that even if you do admit a problem that the solution is any closer, potentially it's going to get worse. When we look at the big issues of the day, people see lots of problems and are trying to solve them with bad information often with lots of sound bite statistics. A lot of people here on HN would know the problems of simplified statistics don't really tell the story that it seems to be telling. A far better analysis is needed. But even with the best science, evidence, and analysis, we can still be a long long way from people even starting on working on a solution.