7 ms·

He created a service that reduced drunk driving rates by 1/3, enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs, provided a valuable service to millions of cu

by vm 9y ago

He created a service that reduced drunk driving rates by 1/3, enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs, provided a valuable service to millions of customers, and accelerated the shift to self driving cars. That deserves serious credit.

rtx 9y ago
But he didn't say the right things.
ckastner 9y ago
> enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs Oh, please. Some argue that those drivers are employees, some argue that they are contractors providing a low-level service, but calling them "entrepreneurs" really is a bit of a stretch.
- x0x0 9y ago
  Uber drivers are entrepreneurs like the fry-station cook at mcdonalds is a small business owner. Except McDonalds can't make you pay for your own fry station. Or lease it from McDonalds at high rates: For examples, Experian estimates the average weekly payment for a new car lease is $96, while a 2013 vehicle through Xchange costs $130 a week. [...] After reviewing the terms of one lease, experts estimate that a driver would pay $25,210 plus $5,000 for the residual value for a 2015 Honda Civic, far more than the Kelley Blue Book fair purchase prive of $18,142. https://consumerist.com/2016/05/31/5-things-you-should-know-about-ubers-xchange-leasing-program-its-costs/ https://consumerist.com/2016/05/31/5-things-you-should-know-...
  - gadders 9y ago
    I think you'll find McDonald's can make you do all of those things.
    - gadders 9y ago
      For the downvoters, some evidence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14577840- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14577840- McDonald's forcing people to buy a special salt shaker "In early September, McDonald’s announced it would start offering all-day breakfast across the U.S. Customers will soon be able to order a limited selection of breakfast items past the usual 10:30 a.m. cutoff. That will require changes in the restaurants, such as finding room on the grills for eggs and in the fryer baskets for hash browns when most customers are ordering burgers and fries. Those changes cost money—including a potential $500 to $5,000 for equipment—that will fall mostly on franchisees." https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-mcdonalds-franchises/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-mcdonalds-franchises...
      - pelario 9y ago
        Why the downvotes?
        rubidium 9y ago
        The fry cook is not the franchise owner. The Uber driver is not an entrepreneur.
        anotheryou 9y ago
        Sorry, I need to highjack a comment of yours for a PM (once you replied to this, I might delete the off-topic text): You gave me carreer advice ("Companies (generally) don't hire "generalists". They hire people to solve their particular problems. You need to show why you're the right person to solve company X's problems.") and I want to thank you for that! I had a job interview and the interviewer was really happy for me to identify a certain UX problem. The interview went well and they let me do a concept for the solution of the problem. I got the job! (not yet on paper, but hopefully soon) I will be a Product Manager with some Product Ownership and with a decent salary (I think a bit over the budget they planned initially). Thanks again!
        tyingq 9y ago
matthewmacleod 9y ago
Bullshit. He made taxi services cheaper by pumping VC money into the market, with no obvious long-term strategy for profitability.
- qb45 9y ago
  FWIW, I heard they convinced investors that economy of scales will make their pricing profitable in the future. At least that's what somebody said in this other Uber thread here. Whether their calculations will pan out is another story. Whether such tactics should be allowed - yet another.
  - Marazan 9y ago
    What economies of scale? Uber distribute the car maintenance costs onto the drivers - making it the most inefficient way to have a fleet of cars. The Uber model is anti-econonmy-of-scale. It is a non scalable human wave approach.
    - netsharc 9y ago
      I suppose the words "pyramid scheme" has been mentioned before... hah, you gotta love the way technology does it, shall we call it Pyramid Scheme 2.0? Promise everyone profits, investors and workers alike, but scam the workers, and maybe there'll be profit for the investors, somewhere in the future.
      - phire 9y ago
        It's more like a Ponzi scheme than a Pyramid scheme. For investors, the promise of profitability is continually just over the horizon, as long as you keep investing money. Everyone can see the company is potentially very profitable, but nobody can see a route there. Though for the drivers, it looks a lot like a multi-level marketing scheme. Be your own boss, choose your own hours, work hard and you will be rich.
  - celticninja 9y ago
    I don't see what scales, their costs are per person/vehicle there is no way with their model to see a reduction in costs by acquiring new drivers. Even if you remove the driver and can have fully autonomous cars the costs are perhaps marginally reduced in the long term. The way they burn money I don't think they have that long of a term in them. I always believe their intention was to become big enough and ubiquitous enough that they could become a monopoly supplier and therefore set profitable prices without the risk of being undercut, having consumed or removed their competition through subsidised rides.
qb45 9y ago
... and are accused of industry espionage, covering-up crimes of their drivers, mishandling medical information, covering-up managers repeatedly using company chat to solicit sex (wtf, I too want a job where I'm paid for doing that), chaotic internal politics resulting in projects being slashed and people moved around for no reason, ... I don't know, if this is true then they could have expected that some of his innovations may backfire.
zer00eyz 9y ago
Lets take this point by point: - reduced drunk driving rates by 1/3 Not going to argue with that one, it is good. - enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs I used to work in direct sales, aka multi level marketing. They too called the people there "entrepreneurs". Those very people your describing as "entrepreneurs" have been suing Uber for missing money. When confronted by one of these drivers about money Kalanick embarrassed himself. It is a gig, barely a job and not "entrepreneurial" - provided a valuable service to millions of customers So do tobacco companies, but we wouldn't qualify that as something good. Doing buisness and having customers requires that you do this. - Accelerated the shift to self driving cars. That deserves serious credit. Newco/waymo lawsuit? Is that what your suggesting? The only one who is getting close to this in a meaning way is tesla. They are the only ones with the data and the drive to do it. Lets talk about other things uber has done - sexual harassment issues (theres a lot here unpack it at your leisure) - India rape case and the file floating around corporate offices - Its creepy data surveillance programs - Its programs to avoid law and code enforcement (greyball) - Its program to track lyft drivers (hell) also totally counter to the "entrepreneurs" idea of them - Its continued flouting of regulation and the law (just file the paperwork like everyone else) These are the less than stellar things that uber has done to burn through investors money in an attempt to secure their market share. Was it needed? I don't know? Does it paint a pretty grim picture that Uber is a company that is willing to do anything to get ahead? It sure looks like it. Kalanick is the ONE constant in all of this, for him to be unaware of all or most of this would make him derelict in his duties as CEO, for him to be aware of all of it doesn't make him look like a good human being. The icing on the cake is the lactation room incident (see: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/08/uber-ceo-does-a-riff-on-smokin-in-the-boys-room/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/08/uber-ceo-does-a-riff-o... ). At this point we go from sketchy possible evil CEO to something that looks like it is right out of HBO's Silicon Valley, only in the show the scene would end with him throwing out a woman who was using the room for its intended purpose to put a fine point on its insanity. Kalanick might have done a lot of good, on a lot of fronts, he also might have been aware of all of the above and either done nothing or actually encouraged it. Uber might succeed, but at this point it is living under a microscope and the odds are that it will be one of the biggest private implosions in the valleys history.
- 9y ago
kyokpae 9y ago
> reduced drunk driving rates by 1/3 Hardly true: http://fortune.com/2016/07/28/uber-drunk-driving-study/ http://fortune.com/2016/07/28/uber-drunk-driving-study/ > enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs Going self-employed doesn't make you an entrepreneur. > provided a valuable service to millions of customers Looks like true: http://fortune.com/2016/10/20/uber-app-riders/ http://fortune.com/2016/10/20/uber-app-riders/ > accelerated the shift to self driving car Not true. Uber's entered the game very late and since then lagged behind most of the competitors in this space: http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-companies-most-likely-to-get-driverless-cars-on-the-road-first-2017-4 http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-companies-most-likely-to-g...
- camillomiller 9y ago
  Let's not forget that, however you frame it, he might have done all that by exploiting the worst traits of digital capitalism. I.e. they found the cleverest way to keep the revenue flowing (and maybe profits, one day) while getting rid of those pesky liabilities called means of production, all with appalling levels of capital concentration and lack of redistribution. Kalanick might be out, but UBER now is hardly less monstrous as a company.
  - HenryBemis 9y ago
    +1 I think that apart the "less drunk drivers", "entrepreneurs", and all that fandom talk, Uber went ahead to bump heads with one of the most "exclusive" professions (taxi drivers are the favorite voters for any government), and managed to carve out a portion of their business, out-of-nowhere. It's like, me starting a soft-drink company and, take on Coca & Pepsi and carve out 10% of their sales globally within 5 years. They, of course, achieved this "by hook or by crook" but hey you need a ruthless team to succeed this. Business-wise, a job well done. Sexism, rape, stealing, avoiding taxes, etc... a big fat NO - thou shall not pass.
    - hueving 9y ago
      Rape? When did that happen?
madeofpalk 9y ago
> and accelerated the shift to self driving cars No. They damaged the move forward with self driving cards by putting them on roads before they were ready and without permission and breaking the law. Not to mention the part about how it's all using stolen tech.
jordache 9y ago
wow straight from the uber marketing dept...

by vm 9y ago

rtx 9y ago

But he didn't say the right things.

ckastner 9y ago

> enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs Oh, please. Some argue that those drivers are employees, some argue that they are contractors providing a low-level service, but calling them "entrepreneurs" really is a bit of a stretch.

x0x0 9y ago
Uber drivers are entrepreneurs like the fry-station cook at mcdonalds is a small business owner. Except McDonalds can't make you pay for your own fry station. Or lease it from McDonalds at high rates: For examples, Experian estimates the average weekly payment for a new car lease is $96, while a 2013 vehicle through Xchange costs $130 a week. [...] After reviewing the terms of one lease, experts estimate that a driver would pay $25,210 plus $5,000 for the residual value for a 2015 Honda Civic, far more than the Kelley Blue Book fair purchase prive of $18,142. https://consumerist.com/2016/05/31/5-things-you-should-know-about-ubers-xchange-leasing-program-its-costs/ https://consumerist.com/2016/05/31/5-things-you-should-know-...
- gadders 9y ago
  I think you'll find McDonald's can make you do all of those things.
  - gadders 9y ago
    For the downvoters, some evidence: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14577840- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14577840- McDonald's forcing people to buy a special salt shaker "In early September, McDonald’s announced it would start offering all-day breakfast across the U.S. Customers will soon be able to order a limited selection of breakfast items past the usual 10:30 a.m. cutoff. That will require changes in the restaurants, such as finding room on the grills for eggs and in the fryer baskets for hash browns when most customers are ordering burgers and fries. Those changes cost money—including a potential $500 to $5,000 for equipment—that will fall mostly on franchisees." https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-mcdonalds-franchises/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2015-mcdonalds-franchises...
    - pelario 9y ago
      Why the downvotes?
      - rubidium 9y ago
        The fry cook is not the franchise owner. The Uber driver is not an entrepreneur.
        anotheryou 9y ago
        Sorry, I need to highjack a comment of yours for a PM (once you replied to this, I might delete the off-topic text): You gave me carreer advice ("Companies (generally) don't hire "generalists". They hire people to solve their particular problems. You need to show why you're the right person to solve company X's problems.") and I want to thank you for that! I had a job interview and the interviewer was really happy for me to identify a certain UX problem. The interview went well and they let me do a concept for the solution of the problem. I got the job! (not yet on paper, but hopefully soon) I will be a Product Manager with some Product Ownership and with a decent salary (I think a bit over the budget they planned initially). Thanks again!
      - tyingq 9y ago

matthewmacleod 9y ago

Bullshit. He made taxi services cheaper by pumping VC money into the market, with no obvious long-term strategy for profitability.

qb45 9y ago
FWIW, I heard they convinced investors that economy of scales will make their pricing profitable in the future. At least that's what somebody said in this other Uber thread here. Whether their calculations will pan out is another story. Whether such tactics should be allowed - yet another.
- Marazan 9y ago
  What economies of scale? Uber distribute the car maintenance costs onto the drivers - making it the most inefficient way to have a fleet of cars. The Uber model is anti-econonmy-of-scale. It is a non scalable human wave approach.
  - netsharc 9y ago
    I suppose the words "pyramid scheme" has been mentioned before... hah, you gotta love the way technology does it, shall we call it Pyramid Scheme 2.0? Promise everyone profits, investors and workers alike, but scam the workers, and maybe there'll be profit for the investors, somewhere in the future.
    - phire 9y ago
      It's more like a Ponzi scheme than a Pyramid scheme. For investors, the promise of profitability is continually just over the horizon, as long as you keep investing money. Everyone can see the company is potentially very profitable, but nobody can see a route there. Though for the drivers, it looks a lot like a multi-level marketing scheme. Be your own boss, choose your own hours, work hard and you will be rich.
- celticninja 9y ago
  I don't see what scales, their costs are per person/vehicle there is no way with their model to see a reduction in costs by acquiring new drivers. Even if you remove the driver and can have fully autonomous cars the costs are perhaps marginally reduced in the long term. The way they burn money I don't think they have that long of a term in them. I always believe their intention was to become big enough and ubiquitous enough that they could become a monopoly supplier and therefore set profitable prices without the risk of being undercut, having consumed or removed their competition through subsidised rides.

qb45 9y ago

... and are accused of industry espionage, covering-up crimes of their drivers, mishandling medical information, covering-up managers repeatedly using company chat to solicit sex (wtf, I too want a job where I'm paid for doing that), chaotic internal politics resulting in projects being slashed and people moved around for no reason, ... I don't know, if this is true then they could have expected that some of his innovations may backfire.

zer00eyz 9y ago

Lets take this point by point: - reduced drunk driving rates by 1/3 Not going to argue with that one, it is good. - enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs I used to work in direct sales, aka multi level marketing. They too called the people there "entrepreneurs". Those very people your describing as "entrepreneurs" have been suing Uber for missing money. When confronted by one of these drivers about money Kalanick embarrassed himself. It is a gig, barely a job and not "entrepreneurial" - provided a valuable service to millions of customers So do tobacco companies, but we wouldn't qualify that as something good. Doing buisness and having customers requires that you do this. - Accelerated the shift to self driving cars. That deserves serious credit. Newco/waymo lawsuit? Is that what your suggesting? The only one who is getting close to this in a meaning way is tesla. They are the only ones with the data and the drive to do it. Lets talk about other things uber has done - sexual harassment issues (theres a lot here unpack it at your leisure) - India rape case and the file floating around corporate offices - Its creepy data surveillance programs - Its programs to avoid law and code enforcement (greyball) - Its program to track lyft drivers (hell) also totally counter to the "entrepreneurs" idea of them - Its continued flouting of regulation and the law (just file the paperwork like everyone else) These are the less than stellar things that uber has done to burn through investors money in an attempt to secure their market share. Was it needed? I don't know? Does it paint a pretty grim picture that Uber is a company that is willing to do anything to get ahead? It sure looks like it. Kalanick is the ONE constant in all of this, for him to be unaware of all or most of this would make him derelict in his duties as CEO, for him to be aware of all of it doesn't make him look like a good human being. The icing on the cake is the lactation room incident (see: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/08/uber-ceo-does-a-riff-on-smokin-in-the-boys-room/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/08/uber-ceo-does-a-riff-o... ). At this point we go from sketchy possible evil CEO to something that looks like it is right out of HBO's Silicon Valley, only in the show the scene would end with him throwing out a woman who was using the room for its intended purpose to put a fine point on its insanity. Kalanick might have done a lot of good, on a lot of fronts, he also might have been aware of all of the above and either done nothing or actually encouraged it. Uber might succeed, but at this point it is living under a microscope and the odds are that it will be one of the biggest private implosions in the valleys history.

9y ago

kyokpae 9y ago

> reduced drunk driving rates by 1/3 Hardly true: http://fortune.com/2016/07/28/uber-drunk-driving-study/ http://fortune.com/2016/07/28/uber-drunk-driving-study/ > enabled nearly 200K drivers to become entrepreneurs Going self-employed doesn't make you an entrepreneur. > provided a valuable service to millions of customers Looks like true: http://fortune.com/2016/10/20/uber-app-riders/ http://fortune.com/2016/10/20/uber-app-riders/ > accelerated the shift to self driving car Not true. Uber's entered the game very late and since then lagged behind most of the competitors in this space: http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-companies-most-likely-to-get-driverless-cars-on-the-road-first-2017-4 http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-companies-most-likely-to-g...

camillomiller 9y ago
Let's not forget that, however you frame it, he might have done all that by exploiting the worst traits of digital capitalism. I.e. they found the cleverest way to keep the revenue flowing (and maybe profits, one day) while getting rid of those pesky liabilities called means of production, all with appalling levels of capital concentration and lack of redistribution. Kalanick might be out, but UBER now is hardly less monstrous as a company.
- HenryBemis 9y ago
  +1 I think that apart the "less drunk drivers", "entrepreneurs", and all that fandom talk, Uber went ahead to bump heads with one of the most "exclusive" professions (taxi drivers are the favorite voters for any government), and managed to carve out a portion of their business, out-of-nowhere. It's like, me starting a soft-drink company and, take on Coca & Pepsi and carve out 10% of their sales globally within 5 years. They, of course, achieved this "by hook or by crook" but hey you need a ruthless team to succeed this. Business-wise, a job well done. Sexism, rape, stealing, avoiding taxes, etc... a big fat NO - thou shall not pass.
  - hueving 9y ago
    Rape? When did that happen?

madeofpalk 9y ago

> and accelerated the shift to self driving cars No. They damaged the move forward with self driving cards by putting them on roads before they were ready and without permission and breaking the law. Not to mention the part about how it's all using stolen tech.

jordache 9y ago

wow straight from the uber marketing dept...