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A jerk is someone who borrows your car and doesn't pay for the dent he puts in the bumper. What happened at Uber was the creation of one of the most insanely ho

A jerk is someone who borrows your car and doesn't pay for the dent he puts in the bumper. What happened at Uber was the creation of one of the most insanely hostile work environments in living memory, where flouting not just the law, but also basic standards of human decency, was not only accepted but encouraged at all levels of the company.

hkmurakami 9y ago
So basically all investment banking divisions should be treated with the same regard? I find it strange that we seem to give finance a pass when they've engaged in this sort of behavior for decades.
- cf 9y ago
  Do we actually give the finance industry a pass? The fact that "Wall st" is a pejorative these days is some indication that's not the case.
  - aioprisan 9y ago
    The fact that there are never any real consequences to Wall St actually tends to prove the opposite.
    - graedus 9y ago
      Wall St has deeply and thoroughly captured all of the regulatory agencies charged with overseeing it, as well as most of the powerful organs of government, and thus sits comfortably above the law.
      - malandrew 9y ago
        But not above the ire of the media. The media is just as money-corruptible as every other business enterprise and it found a shiny new toy to play with with Uber. There are likely orders of magnitude more workplace culture issues in finance, yet the media has largely moved past lambasting financial firms for that because it doesn't earn them enough eyeballs. Uber is only getting more attention for something many many many businesses are guilty of (and to a far greater degree) because no other company is as lucrative to write about.
  - williamscales 9y ago
    Yeah, we definitely give finance a pass. We say "huh, well, bankers will be bankers, can't expect folks to behave around that much money", put in place some ineffectual "controls" and start the whole cycle again.
- tacomonstrous 9y ago
  Maybe bankers get a pass. What does that have to do with this situation? It's an insidious line of argument.
- jolux 9y ago
  We shouldn't give them a pass either. That's a non sequitur.
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Whataboutism. The stronger argument is "So basically the White House should be treated with the same regard?" but the answer is still "We shouldn't give them a pass either. That's a non sequitur."
- consz 9y ago
  The culture in finance is a lot more professional (and less sexist) than what was going on in Uber.
wapz 9y ago
> one of the most insanely hostile work environments in living memory > encouraged at all levels of the company Do you have any sources for this? There have been a few blog posts and some independent investigations to my knowledge but nothing to suggest it is/was "one of the most insanely hostile work environments"--especially worldwide.
stickfigure 9y ago
Did you work there? This narrative is almost comically hyperbolic. I know exactly one person who works at Uber. She joined as an engineer about a year ago. I asked; she says it is less sexist than every other place she has worked (especially after all the press), and she likes her job. She also says it's a big company and she doesn't know if it's different in other parts.
- stale2002 9y ago
  If 50% of women at Uber are perfectly happy at their jobs, and the other 50% are being subject to an illegal hostile work environment, that is not a good track record. Even if that number was 10%, or 1%, that is still a horrible track record. They have perhaps taken the criticism and news to heart and changed their ways, but nobody at all denies that there WERENT problems before. Uber itself has admitted that there were serious problems, and says that they re going to fix them.
  - austenallred 9y ago
    Sure, but the claim is extraordinary and requires extraordinary evidence
    - smileysteve 9y ago
      By this point, it is clear that Eric Holder found at least some evidence.
      - dllthomas 9y ago
        Evidence of problems, yes. Evidence of "one of the most insanely hostile work environments in living memory, where flouting not just the law, but also basic standards of human decency, was not only accepted but encouraged at all levels of the company"?
    - stale2002 9y ago
      Extraordinary evidence such as basically every C level executive being ousted? Extraordinary evidence, such as the company itself doing a thorough investigation, finding lots of problems, and then publishing those problems? Uber itself has shouted to the world that the problems existed, and that they are working to fix them. I am not sure what other kind of evidence you could get, that is better than the company itself saying that there is a problem.
johncolanduoni 9y ago
I think you have an overly optimistic view of what the deep end of hostile work environments looks like (not that Uber was not notably bad).
nashashmi 9y ago
I have yet to find a place that can maintain "basic standards of human decency" yet still be aggressive enough in its endeavors to push the limits without people getting hurt. Listen, Uber gets lots of flak for being a nasty work environment, but maybe all it ever did was play very, very hard ball. People think the solution is to, figuratively speaking, play nice, but maybe the real solution is for the other side of the team to play just as hard, if not harder. Meaning for employees to not just own the assigned work, but also the work environment, to blow the whistle when they see something wrong, to dig up the hatchet when things get unfair, and most importantly to never be accepting of status quo just for political reasons or for lack of perseverance, but to confront every thing they disagree with, for the very simple reason of "communication" more than anything else. The idea is not to punish but to make points known and push evil back into its hiding spot.

hkmurakami 9y ago

So basically all investment banking divisions should be treated with the same regard? I find it strange that we seem to give finance a pass when they've engaged in this sort of behavior for decades.

cf 9y ago
Do we actually give the finance industry a pass? The fact that "Wall st" is a pejorative these days is some indication that's not the case.
- aioprisan 9y ago
  The fact that there are never any real consequences to Wall St actually tends to prove the opposite.
  - graedus 9y ago
    Wall St has deeply and thoroughly captured all of the regulatory agencies charged with overseeing it, as well as most of the powerful organs of government, and thus sits comfortably above the law.
    - malandrew 9y ago
      But not above the ire of the media. The media is just as money-corruptible as every other business enterprise and it found a shiny new toy to play with with Uber. There are likely orders of magnitude more workplace culture issues in finance, yet the media has largely moved past lambasting financial firms for that because it doesn't earn them enough eyeballs. Uber is only getting more attention for something many many many businesses are guilty of (and to a far greater degree) because no other company is as lucrative to write about.
- williamscales 9y ago
  Yeah, we definitely give finance a pass. We say "huh, well, bankers will be bankers, can't expect folks to behave around that much money", put in place some ineffectual "controls" and start the whole cycle again.
tacomonstrous 9y ago
Maybe bankers get a pass. What does that have to do with this situation? It's an insidious line of argument.
jolux 9y ago
We shouldn't give them a pass either. That's a non sequitur.
DonHopkins 9y ago
Whataboutism. The stronger argument is "So basically the White House should be treated with the same regard?" but the answer is still "We shouldn't give them a pass either. That's a non sequitur."
consz 9y ago
The culture in finance is a lot more professional (and less sexist) than what was going on in Uber.

wapz 9y ago

> one of the most insanely hostile work environments in living memory > encouraged at all levels of the company Do you have any sources for this? There have been a few blog posts and some independent investigations to my knowledge but nothing to suggest it is/was "one of the most insanely hostile work environments"--especially worldwide.

stickfigure 9y ago

Did you work there? This narrative is almost comically hyperbolic. I know exactly one person who works at Uber. She joined as an engineer about a year ago. I asked; she says it is less sexist than every other place she has worked (especially after all the press), and she likes her job. She also says it's a big company and she doesn't know if it's different in other parts.

stale2002 9y ago
If 50% of women at Uber are perfectly happy at their jobs, and the other 50% are being subject to an illegal hostile work environment, that is not a good track record. Even if that number was 10%, or 1%, that is still a horrible track record. They have perhaps taken the criticism and news to heart and changed their ways, but nobody at all denies that there WERENT problems before. Uber itself has admitted that there were serious problems, and says that they re going to fix them.
- austenallred 9y ago
  Sure, but the claim is extraordinary and requires extraordinary evidence
  - smileysteve 9y ago
    By this point, it is clear that Eric Holder found at least some evidence.
    - dllthomas 9y ago
      Evidence of problems, yes. Evidence of "one of the most insanely hostile work environments in living memory, where flouting not just the law, but also basic standards of human decency, was not only accepted but encouraged at all levels of the company"?
  - stale2002 9y ago
    Extraordinary evidence such as basically every C level executive being ousted? Extraordinary evidence, such as the company itself doing a thorough investigation, finding lots of problems, and then publishing those problems? Uber itself has shouted to the world that the problems existed, and that they are working to fix them. I am not sure what other kind of evidence you could get, that is better than the company itself saying that there is a problem.

johncolanduoni 9y ago

I think you have an overly optimistic view of what the deep end of hostile work environments looks like (not that Uber was not notably bad).

nashashmi 9y ago

I have yet to find a place that can maintain "basic standards of human decency" yet still be aggressive enough in its endeavors to push the limits without people getting hurt. Listen, Uber gets lots of flak for being a nasty work environment, but maybe all it ever did was play very, very hard ball. People think the solution is to, figuratively speaking, play nice, but maybe the real solution is for the other side of the team to play just as hard, if not harder. Meaning for employees to not just own the assigned work, but also the work environment, to blow the whistle when they see something wrong, to dig up the hatchet when things get unfair, and most importantly to never be accepting of status quo just for political reasons or for lack of perseverance, but to confront every thing they disagree with, for the very simple reason of "communication" more than anything else. The idea is not to punish but to make points known and push evil back into its hiding spot.