6 ms·

That's just trading one problem for another. Vancouver has a very serious affordability problem. Not only are you going to be paying a lot more for office and l

That's just trading one problem for another. Vancouver has a very serious affordability problem. Not only are you going to be paying a lot more for office and living space, you're going to have far fewer opportunities for funding.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
startupdiscuss 9y ago
I wonder if there is an arbitrage opportunity: invest in real estate and office space north of Seattle and south of Vancouver, just over the border. Those who can go back and forth and take meetings on both sides. People are within commuting distance of these large metro areas.
- drspacemonkey 9y ago
  Real estate on the Washington side of the border is insanely cheaper. As soon as you cross the border, prices skyrocket and just keep going up until you hit downtown Vancouver. Seriously, our affordability problem is pretty much at crisis levels. People who argue that we should increase density aren't wrong, but we're already building towers as fast as we can. And the majority of those suffer from substandard, shoddy construction. We call it 'leaky condo syndrome'. And even those are selling for $750k+ for under 500sqft.
  - paulsutter 9y ago
    Vancouver is a wonderful city so I can really understand why you want to keep everyone from finding out :) But go see San Francisco if you want to understand an affordability crisis. Vancouver is reasonable in comparison.
    - drspacemonkey 9y ago
      Yes, the cost of living in San Francisco is about twice that of Vancouver. But salaries in Vancouver less than half that of San Francisco, so affordability is worse overall. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE a stronger tech sector here (especially as a developer). We desperately need an industry other than real estate and film. But I just don't see how that can happen without a fundamental shift that just isn't happening anytime soon.
  - teacup50 9y ago
    Indeed; look how well that's worked for Manhattan. /s Realistically, density doesn't seem to ever drive down housing prices in the long term. All it does is increase the value of land tremendously, and thus push local home ownership out of reach of everyone but the ultra-wealthy.
    - ericd 9y ago
      I think that cause and effect might be backwards - people only ever lay out the large upfront expense to build density when the land becomes valuable enough. And that only happens when people are clamoring to live in the same area. If you then refuse to build up, it makes the affordability much, much worse.
      - teacup50 9y ago
        > If you then refuse to build up, it makes the affordability much, much worse. How? If you've balanced jobs/wages against housing supply via standard planning practices, then you should be able to tweak demand. If demand is still high, density just drives prices higher, and shifts the entire housing economy to a rent-seeking one. Furthermore, the real-estate market is global, but the housing market is local. My parents own homes in another state that they've never even seen, and merely rent out via a property management company. As land prices get driven up through density, how do people participating in the local housing market compete with those in the real estate market?
  - geoka9 9y ago
    > just keep going up until you hit downtown Vancouver And it doesn't stop there. West Van is one of the most expensive neighborhoods in Canada.
- mattm 9y ago
  It's a 3 hour drive from Seattle-Vancouver so even if you're halfway that's a 1.5 hour commute.
elchief 9y ago
Still cheaper than SF Here's an analysis of residential rental prices: http://quantitativerhetoric.com/monthly-rental-report-may-2017.html http://quantitativerhetoric.com/monthly-rental-report-may-20...
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  Yes but at least the local economy in SF can support absurd housing prices. Unless you plan on making or paying much higher than average salaries in Vancouver it's going to be very different attracting talent there.
  - elchief 9y ago
    Well if you can't get a US visa your wage there is zero, so I'm not seeing your point
notyourwork 9y ago
Is Vancouver more expensive than Seattle?
- drspacemonkey 9y ago
  Yep. This video tour takes you through a $980k USD condo in downtown Vancouver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j3SChqp51Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j3SChqp51Y Please note that the shoddy construction is not an outlier, it's normal in Vancouver. Whereas this much nicer condo in downtown Seattle a 5 minute walk from Pike Place Market is a relative bargain at $810k USD: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1519-3rd-Ave-APT-204-Seattle-WA-98101/48810134_zpid/?fullpage=true https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1519-3rd-Ave-APT-204-Seat...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

startupdiscuss 9y ago

I wonder if there is an arbitrage opportunity: invest in real estate and office space north of Seattle and south of Vancouver, just over the border. Those who can go back and forth and take meetings on both sides. People are within commuting distance of these large metro areas.

drspacemonkey 9y ago
Real estate on the Washington side of the border is insanely cheaper. As soon as you cross the border, prices skyrocket and just keep going up until you hit downtown Vancouver. Seriously, our affordability problem is pretty much at crisis levels. People who argue that we should increase density aren't wrong, but we're already building towers as fast as we can. And the majority of those suffer from substandard, shoddy construction. We call it 'leaky condo syndrome'. And even those are selling for $750k+ for under 500sqft.
- paulsutter 9y ago
  Vancouver is a wonderful city so I can really understand why you want to keep everyone from finding out :) But go see San Francisco if you want to understand an affordability crisis. Vancouver is reasonable in comparison.
  - drspacemonkey 9y ago
    Yes, the cost of living in San Francisco is about twice that of Vancouver. But salaries in Vancouver less than half that of San Francisco, so affordability is worse overall. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE a stronger tech sector here (especially as a developer). We desperately need an industry other than real estate and film. But I just don't see how that can happen without a fundamental shift that just isn't happening anytime soon.
- teacup50 9y ago
  Indeed; look how well that's worked for Manhattan. /s Realistically, density doesn't seem to ever drive down housing prices in the long term. All it does is increase the value of land tremendously, and thus push local home ownership out of reach of everyone but the ultra-wealthy.
  - ericd 9y ago
    I think that cause and effect might be backwards - people only ever lay out the large upfront expense to build density when the land becomes valuable enough. And that only happens when people are clamoring to live in the same area. If you then refuse to build up, it makes the affordability much, much worse.
    - teacup50 9y ago
      > If you then refuse to build up, it makes the affordability much, much worse. How? If you've balanced jobs/wages against housing supply via standard planning practices, then you should be able to tweak demand. If demand is still high, density just drives prices higher, and shifts the entire housing economy to a rent-seeking one. Furthermore, the real-estate market is global, but the housing market is local. My parents own homes in another state that they've never even seen, and merely rent out via a property management company. As land prices get driven up through density, how do people participating in the local housing market compete with those in the real estate market?
- geoka9 9y ago
  > just keep going up until you hit downtown Vancouver And it doesn't stop there. West Van is one of the most expensive neighborhoods in Canada.
mattm 9y ago
It's a 3 hour drive from Seattle-Vancouver so even if you're halfway that's a 1.5 hour commute.

elchief 9y ago

Still cheaper than SF Here's an analysis of residential rental prices: http://quantitativerhetoric.com/monthly-rental-report-may-2017.html http://quantitativerhetoric.com/monthly-rental-report-may-20...

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
Yes but at least the local economy in SF can support absurd housing prices. Unless you plan on making or paying much higher than average salaries in Vancouver it's going to be very different attracting talent there.
- elchief 9y ago
  Well if you can't get a US visa your wage there is zero, so I'm not seeing your point

notyourwork 9y ago

Is Vancouver more expensive than Seattle?

drspacemonkey 9y ago
Yep. This video tour takes you through a $980k USD condo in downtown Vancouver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j3SChqp51Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j3SChqp51Y Please note that the shoddy construction is not an outlier, it's normal in Vancouver. Whereas this much nicer condo in downtown Seattle a 5 minute walk from Pike Place Market is a relative bargain at $810k USD: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1519-3rd-Ave-APT-204-Seattle-WA-98101/48810134_zpid/?fullpage=true https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1519-3rd-Ave-APT-204-Seat...