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"In communist Russia, the ego goals might be to work in the factory in service to the state. Unfortunately, this is a really shitty goal because it does not pro
by lkozma 16y ago
"In communist Russia, the ego goals might be to work in the factory in service to the state. Unfortunately, this is a really shitty goal because it does not provide opportunity for happiness."
I stopped reading here - it is a stupid generalization and a misunderstanding of the Flow concept, of people in totalitarian regimes and of people in general.
People living in communist Russia were not as naive to have as a personal goal "service of the state", just as an employee in corporate America today doesn't necessarily think of "maximizing shareholder value" the whole day (or whatever is on the bullshit bingo du jour).
In fact, the idea of Csikszentmihalyi's flow is that resourceful people can create/find meaningful activities pretty much regardless of the external environment (above some threshold) which leads to a feeling of happiness.
From what I've heared and read, communist factories were often the hotbeds of creative "hacking": given the nonsensical and weakly enforced rules, people used whatever tools and material they had available to tinker and hack together household items for their own use.
- zackattack 16y ago>I stopped reading here - it is a stupid generalization and a misunderstanding of the Flow concept Got that bit from Mihaly himself, though it's possible I took it out of context. I don't have my copy of the book with me right now but when I get home I will give you some precise quotes. The idea is that intentions and behavior are definitely shaped by the state. >In fact, the idea of Csikszentmihalyi's flow is that resourceful people can create/find meaningful activities pretty much regardless of the external environment (above some threshold) which leads to a feeling of happiness. Yes, and if you'd bother to read the article, you'd see that it mentioned this.
- lkozma 16y ago"Got that bit from Mihaly himself, though it's possible I took it out of context." I'm curious also about the context, I'd be ready to argue against M.Cs. himself, if he really claimed that, but it would be strange, because one of his main points is that better societal conditions, higher standard of living, etc. don't make people that much happier overall, in fact you start the article with this yourself. "Yes, and if you'd bother to read the article, you'd see that it mentioned this." Sorry - didn't mean to sound negative. Yes, you give the example of the guy addicted to programming, unable to move on to what he would want to do instead. Incidentally a similar effect might be at work in totalitarian regimes: people are addicted to the little games they have to play to get by and are not motivated to change the system. Something like a Stockholm syndrome on a larger scale. Just speculating here :)
- angkec 16y agocoming from China, yes we've heard stories of people totally sacrificed themselves to the communies state goal while feeling very happy about it. They are of a rare kind but the state loves them and keep telling stories at the time. Now no one gives a crap about the state goal any more.
- alsomike 16y agoThis quote, plus the author's misuse of Buddhist concepts reminds me of a quote from the book Zen at War, attributed to a prominent Buddhist priest: "If ordered to march: tramp, tramp or shoot: bang, bang. This is the manifestation of the highest wisdom of enlightenment." In other words, loyalty and absolute submission to military leaders and the state was seen as a sign of egolessness and enlightenment.