That's a really good point. Everytime I hear someone say they want "justice" for the family of someone that died as a result of crime, I count that sentiment a

That's a really good point. Everytime I hear someone say they want "justice" for the family of someone that died as a result of crime, I count that sentiment as not helpful. You can't get "justice" because you can't bring back the dead. Paying their debt to society? Society might be be better off without this person in it, but removing a future problem isn't paying a debt - society doesn't benefit as much as gets less penalized. I think you're totally right, and until we acknowledge this point as a society, it will be really hard to improve things very much.